Comments on The Pensive Quill: Stepping Stone or Stumbling Block?

Liam, I realise that about the tension. What int...

2010-08-16T21:17:49.940+01:00

Liam,

I realise that about the tension. What interests me is the degree to which a nationalist demand – that there can be no dissent from the nation in that the nation is obligatory for all it lays claim to – like obligatory nationalism can be incorporated into republicanism.

I see a tension between Republicanism and Nationalism. Republicanism is
the product of the 18th century, modernity and Enlightenment whereas
the nation is an invention of the 19th century. It is the democratic
element which distinguishes Republicanism from Nationalism.
Republicanism is based on the "people" (demos), nationalism on
the "nation" (ethnos). Republicanism is based on "citizenship" whereas
nationalism on "nationality". If dissent is central to democracy it
logically has to be central to republicanism. However the same cannot be automatically said of nationalism. If nationalism is not necessary democratic, dissent will not be necessarily part of it.

AM: I see a tension between Republicanism and Nat...

2010-08-07T14:42:19.716+01:00

AM:

I see a tension between Republicanism and Nationalism. Republicanism is the product of the 18th century, modernity and Enlightenment whereas the nation is an invention of the 19th century. It is the democratic element which distinguishes Republicanism from Nationalism. Republicanism is based on the "people" (demos), nationalism on the "nation" (ethnos). Republicanism is based on "citizenship" whereas nationalism on "nationality". If dissent is central to democracy it logically has to be central to republicanism. However the same cannot be automatically said of nationalism. If nationalism is not necessary democratic, dissent will not be necessarily part of it.

Liam, first chance I have had to read this and a...

2010-08-04T12:19:50.740+01:00

Liam,

first chance I have had to read this and as usual it is consistent with your well documented arguments. The democratic end of things interests me and I was wondering about your views on a nation's insistence on obligatory nationalism which rules out any dissent from the nation. If democracy is not about dissent then how democratic can it be?

We are in danger of going over this until we are &...

2010-07-21T15:35:31.705+01:00

We are in danger of going over this until we are 'green' in the face. Provo leadership sold out 800 yrs of history and any Republican principles in order to become a Nationalist conformist and populist political party within the UK. "period".
The peace process became the focal point for every part of the political system to concentrate upon in order to destry the IRA and secure peace within the UK. The Provo leadership signed up to all that for no more than a seat or two at Stormont and the oportunity to lick the DUP hemaroids clean when required. Might we move on to something more interesting???

While not preempting the rest of your excellent ar...

2010-07-20T15:55:55.805+01:00

While not preempting the rest of your excellent article Liam,I,d be of the opinion that the GFA/BA will be a Berlin style wall around any future attempts at a united Ireland,why would psf want to become a minor player in an all parliment when they can be the big kahuna here.and we may yet see psf becoming an even more unionst party when FF and FG start taking part in the politics of the sick counties.

my first notice of what would grow into the peace ...

2010-07-20T12:25:08.391+01:00

my first notice of what would grow into the peace process was around 1987, GERRY ADAMS was on the news talking about a new SINN FEIN document,back then i did not think that it would grow into such a monster, i can remember putting up those blue, freedom, justice and peace posters around the neck of the woods where i live.

i think that it was michael collins who coined the phrase stepping stone, a lot of good it done him,

i see that the movement is criticised for asking for a electorial pact in the 80s with the stoops, thats politics, specially if you know that the s.d.l.p will keep saying no, not there fault, just something in their genes, and i am not talking about levi,
the stoop leaders hate SINN FEIN, and i mean hate, you play with that,no point in huffing, mould them, use there hate.

to get to a certain point, all things were said to all players, 26 county, 6 county and the brits, all players thought that the movement was just talking to themselves, bless their socks.
but the only words that would matter are those that IRISH people voted yes to in 1998, the good friday agreement was voted yes by the majority of people in the 32 counties,

fianna fail was rowing away from its claim of the six counties,
not exactly, the 26 county claim was got rid of in 1998, in the good friday agreement, and were replaced with the new 32 county articles 2 and 3, page 4 in agreement,
i personally had a problem with those who wanted to keep the old 26 county partionist claim, just me again, being picky.

Liam, I don't think the Provisionals changed d...

2010-07-19T23:39:26.331+01:00

Liam, I don't think the Provisionals changed direction in the 1990's I think they done a complete u-turn.

A fag paper could not seperate the so called political and ideological differences between Sinn Fein and the SDLP.

They (Sinn Fein) are constitutional nationalists in everything but name.

They are perfectly at ease working within the institutional and constitutional structures.
The events of last week could seriously weaken many academic arguments, that Sinn Fein remain tentative about upholding the power of the state.
They had no problem voicing their belief, that the power of the state is the ultimate and the only legitimate power when it comes to the use of violence.

In many ways they have surpassed the SDLP, as few SDLP representatives ever presented themselves as both moral guardians and PSNI chaperones.

They, (Sinn Fein) have allowed the republican struggle to be neatly packaged as a few years of sectarian strife.
Of course they will say the Brits are part of the solution, the Brits had to look the other way as a down payment for that one.

Constitutional Sinn Fein have to sell this process as a 'Stepping Stone'they have no choice. Alternative republicans take a very different view, they perceive it as a 'Stumbling Block'

Here is an interesting article I lost and recently...

2010-07-19T22:11:32.513+01:00

Here is an interesting article I lost and recently found again. The part about funding rings very true especially in view of PSF's swing towards Anglicisation, The UK City of Culture and all that!!

I must get round to reading the book...

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/reviewofbooks_article/5515/

"No Irish nationalist could support any treat...

2010-07-19T22:04:15.475+01:00

"No Irish nationalist could support any treaty which institutionalizes British government claims to a part of Irish national territory. Indeed, the term - 'constitutional nationalism'- used by Mr.Mallon (SDLP) and his colleagues to describe their political philosophy is a contradiction in terms. The only constitutional nationalist in Ireland today is Sean McBride. He puts his nationalism within a framework of Irish constitutionality. Mr. Mallon, however, puts his within the framework of British constitutionality. Irish nationalism within British constitutionality is a contradiction in terms."
- Gerry Adams, 1986

("The Politics of Irish Freedom", Gerry Adams, Brandon Book Publishers, Ltd., Dingle, County Kerry, Ireland 1986, page 112, lines 26-35.

NOTE: REMOVED FROM 1995 and1996 EDITIONS).