Comments on The Pensive Quill: Tackling The Priest Problem

Metamoralia ‘Quebec … it's one of the most l...

2011-07-25T23:04:36.888+01:00

Metamoralia

‘Quebec … it's one of the most left-wing, secular and gay-friendly places you're likely to find anywhere--at least Montreal is. Let Quebec show the Irish the way to true enlightenment!’

An example to follow … Ireland is on the road to solving its priest problem. One more institution of repression told where to get off.

i hereby stake my claim as the first non-conformis...

2011-07-22T12:12:40.147+01:00

i hereby stake my claim as the first non-conformist in the pastafarian realm.
no tithe shall i pay, indulgence seek nor savour of false sauces hiding eternal blandness and general 'crap'.

I want a real dinner....AMEN.

Larry, you are lower than the lowest - pasta is m...

2011-07-22T09:16:31.390+01:00

Larry,

you are lower than the lowest - pasta is my religion and you will like it, whether you like it or not. And if you don't understand that then read up on Pastaology and the mysteries of faith will become that much clearer to you. The agents of god command you to like it or forever burn in the fires of hell. God's men know how to torture people forever and ever amen.

oh i forgot AMEN.

2011-07-22T09:07:13.894+01:00

oh i forgot
AMEN.

AM I dont like pasta, cabbage spudz+gamon fer me....

2011-07-22T09:06:49.776+01:00

AM

I dont like pasta, cabbage spudz+gamon fer me...with parsley sauce.

Marty, ‘they are learning that the FSM boiled for...

2011-07-22T07:59:29.415+01:00

Marty,

‘they are learning that the FSM boiled for our sins.’

And we don’t have to put up with the guff that he rose from the dead after the Jews killed him and the Communists doubted him and the journalists smeared him and the gays taunted him and Frankie up the street – it was all his fault, and his granny, her too. He accepted boiling to show us the gift of everlasting life. Oh great Pasta we love you, our universal saviour.

SMH,

We could even translate it into Latin - corruptus cockus in the frockus!

Alfie

From Fr. Charles M Carty: ‘He is acting, not as a human being, but as an agent of God.’ That’s funny.

007
Down from Heaven
Gawd
James Gawd!

You Only Live Twice - if you don't go to hell for not listening to us.

Agent of god - I wonder how many Vatican victims had that told to them prior to the assault. There is no end to the bollix that these people will tell us.

John, From Fr. Charles M Carty's church-appro...

2011-07-21T23:34:10.776+01:00

John,

From Fr. Charles M Carty's church-approved writings on confession:

"49. What of the thief who is not discovered by the police?

The priest orders him to make restitution, giving back to the owner the money or goods stolen. Only when he promises to do so will he receive absolution for his sin before God. But the penitent is not obliged to give himself up to the police. It is their business to prove the crime and arrest him.

50. Will the priest tell the police or is it a sacred secret?

The priest will certainly not tell the police. He can never act upon information submitted to him for the purpose of absolution before God.

51. Is not such a priest an enemy to the state?

No. State laws control men in their capacity as citizens of the state. But a priest does not hear confessions in his capacity as a citizen of the state. He is acting, not as a human being, but as an agent of God. You might as well oblige God, since He knows all things, to reveal all crimes to the police. The priest would never have known had he not been doing a duty in the name of God. In any case, he is obliged by both the natural and positive laws of morality in this matter to die rather than reveal such things."

So unless the rules governing confession have changed since Carty's day, it would seem that priests cannot withhold absolution until a remorseful criminal turns himself over to the police. This is ridiculous, John.

I,ve never been a fan in anyway of FG but when I r...

2011-07-21T18:50:41.914+01:00

I,ve never been a fan in anyway of FG but when I read Enda Kenny,s statement re,the catholic church and the vatican as "dysfunctional,disconnected,elitist,and narcissistic,and downplayed the rape and torture of children,I was impressed, here at last we had a politican who had the balls to tell the pervs just what they are, now I hear that the pope may not visit us next year, Fuck me the day just keeps getting better.

André ‘I am still amazed that I lot of people in ...

2011-07-21T17:05:03.259+01:00

André

‘I am still amazed that I lot of people in Ireland are blind when it comes to see the crimes committed by the Church.’

We see it all the time. Blame the dog, the cat, the cow, the horse, anything but Mother Church. But it is falling down around their ears now and the important thing is to keep the pressure on. The rape cartel needs to be defeated. All the deflection is shovelling smoke.

‘We are not yet totally decolonized, but at least we are free from church alienation.’

Way to go

It's true, Quebec used to be one of the most C...

2011-07-21T15:49:54.662+01:00

It's true, Quebec used to be one of the most Catholic parts of North America with an institutional grip on the province like no other. Now it's one of the most left-wing, secular and gay-friendly places you're likely to find anywhere--at least Montreal is. Let Quebec show the Irish the way to true enlightenment !

John, "Someone goes to confession to obta...

2011-07-21T14:12:38.845+01:00
John,

"Someone goes to confession to obtain forgiveness of sins. In this hypothetical case the priest would order the penitent to hand himself over. If he does not do this he will not be absolved."

I'm not sure the priest even has this power, John. I read that all the priest can do in this situation is to encourage the man to go to the police; he cannot make it a condition of the man's absolution. Indeed, my understanding is that if a penitent is genuinely contrite and makes a heartfelt commitment to desist from the sinful behaviour, then he must be absolved.

"The priest cannot and would not do anymore than that."

But should he, especially if he suspects further crimes against children may be committed?

Perhaps the priest should not be compelled to report past crimes revealed to him in confession. However, if he strongly suspects that a penitent is going to commit further serious crimes, then surely he should be obliged to tell the police.

St Jude Patron Saint of Hopeless Cases must be exh...

2011-07-21T11:00:28.045+01:00
St Jude Patron Saint of Hopeless Cases must be exhausted from praying for those corrupt cocks in frocks in the Vatican to front up to reality & truth.

Alfie, ‘But what if a man confessed to a priest t...

2011-07-21T09:38:00.139+01:00
Alfie,

‘But what if a man confessed to a priest that he was molesting his children but was unwilling to hand himself over to the authorities? Shouldn't the priest be obliged to tell the police?’

The bizarre rituals of the Masonic Order have no application to society. This is not about the protection of sources. At the same time I would imagine the priest would be obliged to inform the man making the confession in advance that he will report anything to the civil law. Otherwise the clergy become the gatherers of evidence which is not what they are supposed to do. Unlike what journalists might discover and put to societal service by enhancing public understanding or strengthening accountability, confessions to priests are only a church ritual and not beneficial to society. The information is for private use only. Why should society privilege that?

In any event, very few priests will be prepared to go to jail for it. While willing to risk jail for child rape it is unlikely they will risk going there for something like standing on principle. The odd exception, no doubt, but no more.

Alfie, ‘Tatchell has said that "not all sex ...

2011-07-21T07:27:24.412+01:00
Alfie,

‘Tatchell has said that "not all sex involving children is unwanted,
abusive and harmful."

I think this is probably true given that very few children wait until the age of consent before they try. But I think even if society errs it is obliged to do so, as you argue, on the side of caution. The child’s motives,sense of inquisitiveness and need to explore and experience, is not the issue for me but the motivation of the teachers. Bob Geldof found his experience pleasurable and non abusive. But that does not address the woman who seduced him. Of course she gave him pleasure just as she would have were she to have given him a thousand pound stolen from a bank. It was not in her gift to decide. Until such times as a consensus develops within society about the age of consent – and it will shift whatever our reservations – adults have a responsibility which children do not.

Also, none of this is comparable to clerical rape. I have not yet heard a Vatican victim claim they enjoyed some priest molesting them. Their claim is that it was rape, assault or abuse.

Tatchell should be allowed his viewpoint so long as he does not breach societal laws and abuse children or wilfully encourage others to do so. There is nothing that I have read so far which suggests he has.

I think your attitude to Debra Lafave is not all that different to most males! Yet if it was my son I would not be happy and would regard him as the target of abuse even though he might think it great.

Nuala, I think that goes without saying. You have...

2011-07-20T23:17:58.682+01:00
Nuala,

I think that goes without saying. You have been very consistent on this issue.

Ryan, I think we never worshiped the church as we...

2011-07-20T23:14:29.787+01:00
Ryan,

I think we never worshiped the church as we worship the Montreal Canadiens. :)

Mackers, I actually thought about children who wer...

2011-07-20T23:03:49.215+01:00
Mackers,
I actually thought about children who were abused when I had posted my comment and I seriously meant to come back in and correct it.
Not for a second would I try and understate what they did.
My experience of religion from a very young was nothing like the horror that was visited on some children, but that does not mean that I don't feel sick and sickened by it.

'And we see the deflection all the time. If it...

2011-07-20T22:18:22.935+01:00
'And we see the deflection all the time. If it isn’t the Jews it is the gays or the communists or some other scapegoat.'

All said while you are scapegoating the 'Catholics!'

If you were to substitue Jew or Moslem for everywhere you attack the Catholic Church you wouldn't get away with it.

Why do collapsed Catholics have so much hate for the Catholic Church that they are blinded to simple logic?

The real tragedy is that so many renegade priests listened to the theorisers like Peter Tatchell, the 'grooming rights' activist!

'And then we hear the rubbish and libel to def...

2011-07-20T22:11:36.959+01:00
'And then we hear the rubbish and libel to deflect it.'

Are you saying that my words quoted below are 'rubbish and libel'?:

"He is an apologist for under-age sexual activity and even goes so far as to have a quotation on his home page which suggests that paedophilia is acceptable if consented to!"

Would you like me to give you the link to his web site where this is written?

You have libelled many within the Catholic Church because some did not live up to what it teaches. The Catholic Church is no more responsable for those who reject its teachings and betray its trust than marriage is for adultery.

The REAL evil here is those who defend sex between 9 year olds and think that paedophilia is okay when 'consented to'. Your inabillity to condemn anything other than 'Catholic' abuse shows me that your real enemy is the Catholic Church rather than those who condone paedophilia.

Nuala, I don’t think religion necessarily has a b...

2011-07-20T21:50:32.268+01:00
Nuala,

I don’t think religion necessarily has a bad effect on a childhood. I do believe that the Catholic Church has long posed a threat to every child through its ‘extensive clerical predation.’ There is none that it would not have abused given the opportunity. I was interested in comments by Diarmuid Martin on RTE today saying that children were still in danger. I think SMH very much shows that her psychological wellbeing was stolen from her. Clerical rape is not a problem caused by a few individuals. It is an institutional problem and is enabled by the Church. And then we hear the rubbish and libel to deflect it.

SMH,

‘The Vatican honchos need to be forced into the dock, to be prosecuted for crimes against humanity.’
It should be a universally pressed demand.

And we see the deflection all the time. If it isn’t the Jews it is the gays or the communists or some other scapegoat.

It is reassuring to see the Vatican victims rise up against the despicable institution that enabled their abuse. I am hopeful that Irish society will eventually get this leech off its neck.

AM, ‘Blame Tatchell, communists, Jews, journalist...

2011-07-20T19:21:24.148+01:00
AM,

‘Blame Tatchell, communists, Jews, journalists, secular society, gays’

‘Those Jews. They block everything.’

It is interesting to see it is a Jew who is leading the assault against the Sacrament of Penance.

Also, do you think Enda Kenny reads the Pensive Quill now that you are both on the same band-wagon?

How do you intend to disband the Catholic Church?

Do you blame marriage for adultery?

if priests insist on celebacy, [lets face it they ...

2011-07-20T17:45:01.415+01:00
if priests insist on celebacy, [lets face it they cant hack-it] then all priests should volunteer to be eunuks. Why would they need their tackle?

Alfie, 'Tatchell may have had a point, but I ...

2011-07-20T15:01:53.774+01:00
Alfie,

'Tatchell may have had a point, but I believe he went too far with it. On the other hand, you accused him of being a paedophile - that is wrong also.'

Okay. He is an apologist for under-age sexual activity and even goes so far as to have a quotation on his home page which suggests that paedophilia is acceptable if consented to!

John, "The trouble with that line of reas...

2011-07-20T10:38:59.840+01:00
John,

"The trouble with that line of reasoning is that the abuser often convinces himself that the abused is enjoying it... That is why the law is needed to protect nine year olds. That is why Tatchell is so wrong."

I agree. I believe that experiences like Bob Geldof's are the exceptions to the rule, so the law must protect children in all circumstances. Tatchell may have had a point, but I believe he went too far with it. On the other hand, you accused him of being a paedophile - that is wrong also.

AM, 'But what if a man confessed to a priest ...

2011-07-20T01:10:09.655+01:00
AM,

'But what if a man confessed to a priest that he was molesting his children but was unwilling to hand himself over to the authorities? Shouldn't the priest be obliged to tell the police?'

Someone goes to confession to obtain forgiveness of sins. In this hypothetical case the priest would order the penitent to hand himself over. If he does not do this he will not be absolved. The priest cannot and would not do anymore than that.

Saint?Mary Hedgehog, Fionnuala and others,

The fact that I don't always get the chance to respond does not mean I am not listening to what you are writing and value your responses.

Comments on The Pensive Quill: Tackling The Priest Problem

Metamoralia ‘Quebec … it's one of the most l...

i hereby stake my claim as the first non-conformis...

Larry, you are lower than the lowest - pasta is m...

oh i forgot AMEN.

AM I dont like pasta, cabbage spudz+gamon fer me....

Marty, ‘they are learning that the FSM boiled for...

John, From Fr. Charles M Carty's church-appro...

I,ve never been a fan in anyway of FG but when I r...

André ‘I am still amazed that I lot of people in ...

It's true, Quebec used to be one of the most C...

John, "Someone goes to confession to obta...

St Jude Patron Saint of Hopeless Cases must be exh...

Alfie, ‘But what if a man confessed to a priest t...

Alfie, ‘Tatchell has said that "not all sex ...

Nuala, I think that goes without saying. You have...

Ryan, I think we never worshiped the church as we...

Mackers, I actually thought about children who wer...

'And we see the deflection all the time. If it...

'And then we hear the rubbish and libel to def...

Nuala, I don’t think religion necessarily has a b...

AM, ‘Blame Tatchell, communists, Jews, journalist...

if priests insist on celebacy, [lets face it they ...

Alfie, 'Tatchell may have had a point, but I ...

John, "The trouble with that line of reas...

AM, 'But what if a man confessed to a priest ...