Comments on The Pensive Quill: Try Banning It

John, Such abuse is not less evil just because it...

2012-07-02T08:51:53.901+01:00

John,

Such abuse is not less evil just because it doesn't have the word 'Catholic' attached to it.

True.

‘But the 'Double Standard' will go on and there will barely be a ripple in the media.’

The focus in the media is because the institution that sets itself up as the moral authority is up to its neck in child rape. Sort of simple is it not?

Celebrating Women's Freedom By Silencing Women...

2012-06-28T11:04:56.274+01:00

Celebrating Women's Freedom By Silencing Women

SMH,

The proliferation of statues and pictures seems a case of social control: Big Brother is everywhere. Many religious cultures have it.

John, ‘I believe I have consistently been MORE cr...

2012-06-28T06:52:23.638+01:00

John,

‘I believe I have consistently been MORE critical of abuse in the Catholic Church than you have.’

Strange the things people believe, now.

‘You have consistently exaggerated abuse in the Church’
Where?

‘If you are really open to another way of seeing it, read the book I suggested by David Pierre’

So much to read before I sleep, unfortunately.

‘because a little dose of the truth will put a stop to your 'I am going to destroy the Catholic Church' crusade.’

Up to now it has fuelled it!

‘Atheism is what atheism does.’

Atheism is just people and no church, bad and good. Some guilty of terrible things and some responsible for great things.

They have as much right to comment on morality as anybody else. None of them are infallible. Just like everybody else.

What is their current body count in billions? Probable the same as believers. I have no way of telling. But it is probably most unlikely that it is their atheism that drives them. Whereas for many of the religious they do it because of their faith.

‘So no child brides in Islam?’

I believe there are just as there are child rape victims in Catholicism

‘No rabbis sucking penises in Judaism?’

In some parts of it just as some priests tell kids it is a way to receive holy communion.

Is there a difference between 'intensely dislike' and 'hate'?

I am not sure. Sometimes I think there is, other times I don’t.
‘Do you also want to ban it in other countries?’

Where it functions as a rape cartel of course. Why not?

‘I really don't see how you can advocate banning the Catholic Church in Ireland whilst saying you are not advocating banning religion.’

And you who can see god in a wafer can’t see something as simple as that.

‘I would never agree that a vote can make an issue like abortion or divorce or gay marriage anything other than wrong.’

So for that reason you can’t be compelled to have an abortion or engage in gay sex against your will, or be forced to divorce your wife.

‘why do you hold to the religion of atheism, which defines itself on the basis of God whom it claims it does not believe in?’
I am not a joiner of clubs.

‘So you only oppose child abuse in 'global ins...

2012-06-26T08:31:00.102+01:00

‘So you only oppose child abuse in 'global institutions' then?’
Limited listening as well as limited thinking.

‘The Catholic Church as it once was could more or less be said to be extinct now, with just a few pockets of faithful.’

To the extent that this might be true, why get upset over attacks on an institution that you don’t even think is the Church?

Islam and Judaism permit the abuse of children, while Catholicism condemns it.
Catholicism allows it through its Church’s policy of cover up, complicity, intimidation of rape victims ...

What we preach matters not if what we practice is the opposite.

AM: 'No religion should be banned.'

JM: And what is the title of this thread again? 'Try Banning It”’
Limited listening again. ‘It’ was the rape cartel not the religion

‘I don't think some things should ever be put for a vote, do you?’
The system that underpins them should rest on the vote. Voting on everything is not practical. Voting is, or should be, a question of who decides and who empowers them to decide

So it is ‘extreme democracy’ you hate now not plain old democracy.
‘We could do with a little more deference.’

Why? And why to the thug that beat kids who would not show it?

John In relation to recycling you said ‘only wher...

2012-06-25T08:07:05.312+01:00

John

In relation to recycling you said ‘only where their own element held positions of authority.’

Given that it was from the top down – look at the position of the Pole, he did nothing to prevent it while knowingly preventing investigations – that sort of eats into the credibility of that theory.

It is pointless to juggle the Churches the way you do: you, when it suits, choosing to support some mythical one that never embraced Vatican 2, and damning the real one which exists and which is invariably the topic of conversation in these exchanges.

Even were we to concede that homosexuality was the driving force behind the phenomenon of clerical child rape why do the rapists congregate in the Church and get protection? Your answer does not stack up.

How tragic it would be if it were allowed to continue, out of fear of offending the 'gay community.'

The Vatican hardly allowed it to continue out of fear of the gay community

you dont have to be good at anagrams to see that p...

2012-06-19T11:17:26.134+01:00

you dont have to be good at anagrams to see that pope Benedict is an epic Bent pedo

John, The Catholic League? http://www.rawstory.c...

2012-06-19T08:48:52.425+01:00

John,

The Catholic League?
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/04/12/catholic-group-says-children-raped-by-priests-were-participants-not-victims/

I came across this by pure chance I must admit while reading a Valerie Tarico piece. I like her take on matters. Do you recall the head of the RUC Kenneth Newman claiming that prisoners in cop custody were beating themselves up?

‘Can you name any of the leaders of 1916 who died outside of the Catholic Faith?’

No. But I feel that type of argument is limiting in its persuasiveness. Otherwise we would exclude from the republican gallery all those Protestants who died for Ireland. You claim to hate the faith that many of the men of 1798 died in. Wolfe Tone is no less a republican because he hit out at priestcraft.

Although I am not always sure what weight can be given to these types of assertions. Brendan Hughes was buried from a church and hadn’t a religious thought in his head. A family thing. Gerry Adams goes to mass every week but I doubt very much he believes in god.

‘You continue to use British black propaganda to sully the name of Roger Casement.’

The best studies in my view show that Casement was not the victim of British Black propaganda. The diaries were most unlikely to have been forgeries. No doubt the British used them to discredit him in the prejudiced era that was then but it does not follow that they were fake. I have seen nothing that would seriously substantiate the claim that they were fake. It would be great to find evidence because it would demonstrate that the British were even more malign in their handling of the matter.

‘He was a great man who died reconciled with the Catholic Faith.’

We see why you need to deny the authenticity of the diaries. He was no less a great man because he was gay. If he abused children he was not a great man at all.

‘this thread is about you wanting to ban the religion that all the leaders of 1916 died in.’

It never was. It is about banning the rape cartel in Ireland. Religious thought should not be banned, nor thoughts about Manchester United. People have a right to hold such thoughts. They have a right to practice their religion – on themselves but not on others not of that religious opinion.

I am not a banner by temperment or instinct otherwise you would have been in the sin bin a long time ago!

‘A simple google search will tell you that the main culprits are "teachers, coaches, substitute teachers, bus drivers and teacher's aides" who account for 69% of all abuse.’

Alfie I feel has dealt competently with this argument. What is the name of the pope of all those groups? Where is their directorate situated? Has that directorate been complicit in child rape?

‘The abuse by priests is so minuscule’

So said the pope and he is infallible and we have no option but to believe him! But it seems so dismissive of the hundreds of thousands of victims of the Church over the centuries.

AM 'I am reading no more either for or against...

2012-06-16T12:53:31.710+01:00

AM
'I am reading no more either for or against. Simply haven't the time.'

20,000 pages of documented sexual abuse of children by the Scouts.

That much is fact.

Such abuse is not less evil just because it doesn't have the word 'Catholic' attached to it.

But the 'Double Standard' will go on and there will barely be a ripple in the media.

The main difference is that 'Catholic abuse' is historical, it has been identified and stopped, whereas that in the Scouts and particularly in schools goes on apace, with a policy of 'passing on the trash' each time it surfaces, on to new victims and often with generous financial pay-offs.

John, 'A lot of both, probably.' As fair...

2012-06-16T12:43:43.440+01:00

John,

'A lot of both, probably.'

As fair an answer as we might get.

I am reading no more either for or against. Simply haven't the time.

Or this one: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...

2012-06-16T11:41:23.320+01:00

Or this one:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/14/us-usa-boyscouts-abuse-idUSBRE85D1MM20120614

'What are we to believe - this or that ?'...

2012-06-16T11:12:20.490+01:00

'What are we to believe -

this
or
that ?'

A lot of both, probably.

Try this if you don't like the other source!

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/06/15/us/oregon-boy-scouts-files/

What are we to believe - this
or
that ?

Sort of shows the dangers of an over reliance on the net for anything

http://www.catholicleague.org/boy-scout-perv-files...

2012-06-15T20:18:45.856+01:00

http://www.catholicleague.org/boy-scout-perv-files-revealing/

AM, ‘I would not go as far as to say that you take...

2012-06-15T09:04:04.699+01:00

AM,
‘I would not go as far as to say that you take pleasure from children being abused, but you seem much more concerned with the reputation of the Church rather than the wellbeing of children which is what the institution is guilty of: Church first. Sort of puts things in a new light.’

I believe I have consistently been MORE critical of abuse in the Catholic Church than you have. In fact last year I posted a site http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/hottopics.html
that highlights and condemns it from the top downwards. I have also consistently condemned abuse outside of the Church. You have consistently exaggerated abuse in the Church and ignored all the evidence that shows that this is minimal when compared with almost any other organization. I can only conclude from your posts that you are almost exclusively driven by hatred of the Catholic Church.

‘I don’t think that Rome reaches into every parish. But Rome sits at the apex of a global institution that is complicit in the rape of children. If there were another way of seeing it I am open to it.’

If you are really open to another way of seeing it, read the book I suggested by David Pierre and you will see the ‘Double Standard’. Of course you won’t, because a little dose of the truth will put a stop to your ‘I am going to destroy the Catholic Church’ crusade.

‘The sect/cult mentality. Not a fan of it.’
What,, not like sects?

‘Islam and Judaism permit the abuse of children, while Catholicism condemns it.’
‘Catholicism is what Catholicism does.’
Atheism is what atheism does. What is their current body count in billions?

‘Islam and Judaism both prosecute for child abuse and they would argue the case on that.’
So no child brides in Islam? No rabbis sucking penises in Judaism? (Don’t believe me, ‘google’ it) .Or maybe you don’t consider these as abuse? A rabbi is even less likely to report abuse than a public school in the USA is.

‘I know little about Judaism.’
Little about Judaism and less about Catholicism.

‘and intensely dislike Islam’
Is there a difference between ‘intensely dislike’ and ‘hate’?

“‘And what is the title of this thread again? 'Try Banning It.””
‘The article was about banning the Catholic Church in Ireland not about banning religion.’
So let me get this straight. You want to ban the Catholic Church in Ireland? Do you also want to ban it in other countries? It is beginning to sound like how many angels dance on the point of a pin.

‘But if you don’t even read what you comment on, there is little point in discussing the matter with you.’
It was all such a long time ago. It didn’t make sense then either. I really don’t see how you can advocate banning the Catholic Church in Ireland whilst saying you are not advocating banning religion.

‘What form would this ‘benevolent dictatorship’ take? Are you a fascist?’
I added that out of badness. I do that sometimes. I don’t really have an interest in politics.

“‘Of course I hate extreme democracy’”
‘Is this a modification of your earlier statement that you ‘loathe democracy’?’
Aristotle and Aquinas discuss three modes of government, Monarchy, Aristocracy and Democracy. None of these things have come down with exactly the same meaning. I have no objection to people sharing in the government, but I would never agree that a vote can make an issue like abortion or divorce or gay marriage anything other than wrong. So yes, in the sense that most would use the term ‘democracy ’ I loath it. So, no, I have not modified my view.

“‘We could do with a little more deference.’”
‘To a lout like him who beat children who won’t defer to him?’
No need for judge or jury for you is there? I admire the gallant priest trying his best to instil respect into hopeless cases.

‘There is no god to hate’
Then why do you hold to the religion of atheism, which defines itself on the basis of God whom it claims it does not believe in?

‘I would not go as far as to say that you take ple...

2012-06-14T19:21:08.213+01:00

‘I would not go as far as to say that you take pleasure from children being abused, but you seem much more concerned with the reputation of the Church rather than the wellbeing of children which is what the institution is guilty of: Church first. Sort of puts things in a new light.’

I believe I have consistently been MORE critical of abuse in the Catholic Church than you have. In fact last year I posted a site http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/hottopics.html
that highlights and condemns it from the top downwards. I have also consistently condemned abuse outside of the Church. You have consistently exaggerated abuse in the Church and ignored all the evidence that shows that this is minimal when compared with almost any other organization. I can only conclude from your posts that you are almost exclusively driven by hatred of the Catholic Church.

‘I don’t think that Rome reaches into every parish. But Rome sits at the apex of a global institution that is complicit in the rape of children. If there were another way of seeing it I am open to it.’

If you are really open to another way of seeing it, read the book I suggested by David Pierre and you will see the ‘Double Standard’. Of course you won’t ,because a little dose of the truth will put a stop to your ‘I am going to destroy the Catholic Church’ crusade.

‘The sect/cult mentality. Not a fan of it.’
What,, not like sects?

‘Islam and Judaism permit the abuse of children, while Catholicism condemns it.’
‘Catholicism is what Catholicism does.’
Atheism is what atheism does. What is their current body count in billions?

‘Islam and Judaism both prosecute for child abuse and they would argue the case on that.’
So no child brides in Islam? No rabbis sucking penises in Judaism? (Don’t believe me, ‘google’ it) .Or maybe you don’t consider these as abuse? A rabbi is even less likely to report abuse than a public school in the USA is.

‘I know little about Judaism.’
Little about Judaism and less about Catholicism.

‘and intensely dislike Islam’
Is there a difference between ‘intensely dislike’ and ‘hate’?

“‘And what is the title of this thread again? 'Try Banning It.””
‘The article was about banning the Catholic Church in Ireland not about banning religion.’
So let me get this straight. You want to ban the Catholic Church in Ireland? Do you also want to ban it in other countries? It is beginning to sound like how many angels dance on the point of a pin.

‘But if you don’t even read what you comment on, there is little point in discussing the matter with you.’
It was all such a long time ago. It didn’t make sense then either. I really don’t see how you can advocate banning the Catholic Church in Ireland whilst saying you are not advocating banning religion.

‘What form would this ‘benevolent dictatorship’ take? Are you a fascist?’
I added that out of badness. I do that sometimes. I don’t really have an interest in politics.

“‘Of course I hate extreme democracy’”
‘Is this a modification of your earlier statement that you ‘loathe democracy’?’
Aristotle and Aquinas discuss three modes of government, Monarchy, Aristocracy and Democracy. None of these things have come down with exactly the same meaning. I have no objection to people sharing in the government, but I would never agree that a vote can make an issue like abortion or divorce or gay marriage anything other than wrong. So yes, in the sense that most would use the term ‘democracy ’ I loath it. So, no, I have not modified my view.

“‘We could do with a little more deference.’”
‘To a lout like him who beat children who won’t defer to him?’
No need for judge or jury for you is there? I admire the gallant priest trying his best to instil respect into hopeless cases.

‘There is no god to hate’
Then why do you hold to the religion of atheism, which defines itself on the basis of God whom it claims it does not believe in?

John, ‘So you only oppose child abuse in 'glo...

2012-06-14T18:11:43.197+01:00

John,

‘So you only oppose child abuse in 'global institutions' then?’
This seems so ignorant a question that it suggests to me that you really are intent on covering up for abuses by the Catholic Church. I long thought Larry was wrong on that. But it strikes me that the deliberate evasiveness lends itself to a conclusion that you do cover. I would not go as far as to say that you take pleasure from children being abused, but you seem much more concerned with the reputation of the Church rather than the wellbeing of children which is what the institution is guilty of: Church first. Sort of puts things in a new light.

I don’t think that Rome reaches into every parish. But Rome sits at the apex of a global institution that is complicit in the rape of children. If there were another way of seeing it I am open to it.

‘The Catholic Church as it once was could more or less be said to be extinct now, with just a few pockets of faithful.’

The sect/cult mentality. Not a fan of it.

‘Islam and Judaism permit the abuse of children, while Catholicism condemns it.’

Catholicism is what Catholicism does. Islam and Judaism both prosecute for child abuse and they would argue the case on that. I know little about Judaism and intensely dislike Islam but when you have a religion based on a book that justifies the Passover murders, the notion that it somehow disapproves of child abuse is contentious. The very idea of a concept as hateful as original sin suggests little respect for children. I guess all clerics say they disapprove and I suspect that most do object to it.

‘And what is the title of this thread again? 'Try Banning It.”

Again, a profoundly ignorant or dishonest argument. The article was about banning the Catholic Church in Ireland not about banning religion. In fact in the piece it stated ‘There should be no prohibition on religious worship or Catholicism per se. People should be free to practice their faith and believe what they want: Christ or Icke, Liverpool or Chelsea, McIlroy or Harrington. It is not for the state to decide what private club citizens follow or what opinions they hold.’

But if you don’t even read what you comment on, there is little point in discussing the matter with you.

What form would this ‘benevolent dictatorship’ take? Are you a fascist?

‘Of course I hate extreme democracy’

Is this a modification of your earlier statement that you ‘loathe democracy’?

‘We could do with a little more deference.’

To a lout like him who beat children who won’t defer to him?

‘Stop hating God’

There is no god to hate

AM ‘…American schools do not register as a global ...

2012-06-14T17:06:45.112+01:00

AM
‘…American schools do not register as a global institution.’

So you only oppose child abuse in ‘global institutions’ then? BTW the Catholic Church does not have the control you seem to think it has. Recent surveys suggest that most ‘Catholics’ do not accept the teaching of the Church, (look at michaelhenry), so if you think that Rome is dictating in every parish in the world you are much mistaken. In fact since the Robber Council it has ceased to govern anywhere. The Catholic Church as it once was could more or less be said to be extinct now, with just a few pockets of faithful.

“‘Other 'global institutions' are Islam and Judaism. Both of these are not only complicit in the abuse of children but their religion allows it.’”

‘These are global religions but not global institutions in the sense that the Catholic Church is.’

My point there is that Islam and Judaism permit the abuse of children, while Catholicism condemns it.

‘No religion should be banned.’

And what is the title of this thread again? ‘Try Banning It”

‘Loo roll time.’

More fodder for the Blog!

‘You don’t come across as Mr Credible.’

So that must make me Mr Incredible!

So 95% of Catholic priests are scoundrels?

I wouldn’t call them all scoundrels, but many are.

‘We really need a theocracy don’t you think? Seeing as democracy is amongst the things you hate.’

I don’t think some things should ever be put for a vote, do you? A benevolent dictatorship would be an improvement on the current system. Of course I hate extreme democracy, but not extreme democrats.

‘The rotten bastard beat children who did not show him deference.’

We could do with a little more deference.

‘I think I sit in that swathe of unwashed humanity!’

TMI, Stop hating God and go take a dip.

John, ‘If you look at the figures in American pu...

2012-06-14T15:29:22.568+01:00

John,

‘If you look at the figures in American public schools you see a very similar pattern, with incidents not being reported and teachers moved from school to school. It is so prevalent there that it dwarves anything in the Catholic Church.’

Again a distortion. American schools do not register as a global institution.

‘Other 'global institutions' are Islam and Judaism. Both of these are not only complicit in the abuse of children but their religion allows it.’

These are global religions but not global institutions in the sense that the Catholic Church is. But you hardly need tell us that clergy of whatever hue like to rape children. We have been saying it for years.

Rabbis abusing kids – not in the slightest doubt about it. Or Mullahs. As Tariw Ali pointed out the Mullahs like their boys. Just like priests in that regard.

‘Now if there were a religion that should be banned, it is the one.’

No religion should be banned. People should be free to believe what they want as long as they don’t practice what they believe on others who don’t believe it.

‘As I have said before, I hate no-one, but I do hate what will lead people away from good. If I think homosexual acts will take a person to hell, then it is not hate that makes me say that.’
Self serving fiction to mask the deep hatred that drives you unless I, and probably just about everybody else, have fundamentally misunderstood you. But why would we have done that?

‘Christ is the Truth, He will set people free from the morass of pornography, homosexuality and other evils that are harming society and individuals.’

Loo roll time.

‘Yes, and their first love must be for God.’

They love god through people not in the abstract. That is just an excuse for hatred.

‘You are probably correct to say that I don't come across as Mr Nice.’

I doubt if I said that. You don’t come across as Mr Credible.

So 95% of Catholic priests are scoundrels? We really need a theocracy don’t you think? Seeing as democracy is amongst the things you hate.

‘Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life.’

LOL – you should get yourself a sandwich board and stand with all those Free P clowns outside some women’s centre or cinema or a park with swings on a Sunday.

‘I don't hate anyone enough to want them to go to Hell, so I want to people to get to Heaven.’

And you sound really persuasive! Alright I believe you!

‘I think threatening to break a man's jaw because he expects good manners is a little unnecessary.’

The rotten bastard beat children who did not show him deference. Itsjustmacker stood up to the abuser who you defended. People who do something socially useful. Why show him respect? There are doctors and nurses who people don't have tip the forelock to.

‘Been there, done that, it is pointless. Being human though I can't guarantee I won't do it again.’

Same for us all I suppose. Sort of reinforces the need to be tolerant and learn to live with the faults and foibles of others. George Orwell used to say that most people want to be good but not too good and not all the time. I think I sit in that swathe of unwashed humanity!

AM, ‘No other global institution has been demonst...

2012-06-14T13:59:41.963+01:00

AM,

‘No other global institution has been demonstrated to have been so complicit in child rape.’

It certainly has. If you look at the figures in American public schools you see a very similar pattern, with incidents not being reported and teachers moved from school to school. It is so prevalent there that it dwarves anything in the Catholic Church

Other ‘global institutions’ are Islam and Judaism. Both of these are not only complicit in the abuse of children but their religion allows it. Try ‘googling’ Jewish paedophilia and you will see lists of many, many rabbis who have been abusing kids. These are covered up with enforced secrecy and hardly a word in the media. I wonder why!?

As for Islam; it teaches abuse. It is everything that you accuse the Catholic Church of. Now if there were a religion that should be banned, it is the one. Its filthy founder built an empire on child abuse and it is coming our way.

‘I think most people here see the real hatred coming from yourself. I have detailed to you previously that you have long struck me as a person driven by religious hatred.’

Our Lord said to St Mary Magdalene, ‘Go and sin no more.’ This has been watered down to ‘carry on sinning’ today. If you say ‘stop the sin’ it is called hate. As I have said before, I hate no-one, but I do hate what will lead people away from good. If I think homosexual acts will take a person to hell, then it is not hate that makes me say that. If I didn’t care about them, I wouldn’t bother about them. Christ is the Truth, He will set people free from the morass of pornography, homosexuality and other evils that are harming society and individuals.

‘When I look at Willie McCrea or Iris Robinson I don’t see anything that would remotely resemble ‘Christian love’

I don’t either, in the main.

‘And it is them you remind me of rather than people like Helder Camara or Oscar Romero.’

I wouldn’t want to be associated with them either. They took their eye off Heaven and tried to create it on earth.

‘I know Christians who are motivated by love. Their concern is impressive.’

Yes, and their first love must be for God, and after that to achieve Salvation for themselves, their families, and lastly society. That is when those who don’t want God call it hate. You are probably correct to say that I don’t come across as Mr Nice, that is because that is what 95% of Catholic priests are doing now, where they have abandoned their flock and are allowing them to plunge down the precipice to eternal ruin, out of a false love that is weak and reluctant to tell people the truth. Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Those in the Church who will not state His Truth and oppose error are the real abusers, (although often clerics who have forgotten Truth are generally those who abuse kids).

I don’t hate anyone enough to want them to go to Hell, so I want to people to get to Heaven. That is what Love is, It is certainly not closing your eyes and knowing where people are headed and saying, ‘carry on’. Although that view will make you very popular. It is easy to be popular.

‘Why attack itsjustmacker for telling an abusive priest where to get off?’’

I think threatening to break a man’s jaw because he expects good manners is a little unnecessary, hence the minor rebuke. I am sure he hasn’t lost any sleep over it!

‘I have no intention of answering abusive comments because it leads nowhere.’

‘On occasion you are as culpable as the others in that regard.’

I know, that’s why I used the present tense. Been there, done that, it is pointless. Being human though I can’t guarantee I won’t do it again.

John, I don’t believe that people here are not in...

2012-06-14T08:28:36.844+01:00

John,

I don’t believe that people here are not interested in the truth about the Catholic religion. I think they are fed up to the ears with self serving waffle and lies from the Church; just as they are fed up with the same from SF. But they are prepared to listen. They are very sceptical as to what they are told.

‘If there was an interest for the truth, and for the kids, then you would be honest and admit that 99.9% of all child abuse happens outside of the Catholic Church.’

You always manage to miss the point, deliberately I suspect. The Catholic Church as an institution is culpable of grave misdeeds in respect of clerical rape of children. Maybe that is an ‘interest for the truth’ you overlook. No other global institution has been demonstrated to have been so complicit in child rape.

‘But let's not let the facts get in the way of pure un-alloyed Catholic hate.’

I think most people here see the real hatred coming from yourself. I have detailed to you previously that you have long struck me as a person driven by religious hatred. In most respects not all that different from the fire and brimstone evangelicals. When I look at Willie McCrea or Iris Robinson I don’t see anything that would remotely resemble ‘Christian love’. And it is them you remind me of rather than people like Helder Camara or Oscar Romero. I know Christians who are motivated by love. Their concern is impressive. George Monbiot wrote that the two people most committed to social justice that he ever met were motivated by a love of god. There are others for whom religion provides an outlet for their hatred.

‘I recommend the book 'Double Standard: Abuse Scandals and the Attack on the Catholic Church” by David Pierre.’

Thank you for your recommendation. They are always welcome here where books are read and not burned.

‘Personally I oppose abuse wherever it occurs.’

Why attack itsjustmacker for telling an abusive priest where to get off?

‘I have no intention of answering abusive comments because it leads nowhere.’

On occasion you are as culpable as the others in that regard. You just have the decency to apologise.

John, the PC brigade will be on us for that!

2012-06-14T07:55:07.168+01:00

John,

the PC brigade will be on us for that!

What did the Jewish pedophile ask the little girl?...

2012-06-13T23:32:24.336+01:00

What did the Jewish pedophile ask the little girl?

- "Hey, little girl, you want to buy some candy?"

John, ‘The following paragraphs were written by S...

2012-06-13T21:53:38.665+01:00

John,

‘The following paragraphs were written by Sam Miller - a prominent Cleveland Jewish businessman.’

At the end of WW2 the Red Army fed the German population, gave out health care, and performed a range of essential services. Yet it raped an estimated 2 million German women and girls. And it deserved criticism for it. I don’t know if the Church is guilty of more rapes than the Soviets, but it can hardly be given a free pass because of the good it has done.

He is right to argue that it is not a Catholic Problem. It is a Catholic Church problem. That is why it is rubbish for him to argue that ‘the agony that Catholics have felt and suffered is not necessarily the fault of the Church. You have been hurt by a very small number of wayward priests.’

The old bad apple theory – the RUC were not bad, just a few wayward cops. What does he take people for?

AM, ‘Let’s presume that the views of the gay radio...

2012-06-13T21:15:47.786+01:00

AM,
‘Let’s presume that the views of the gay radio presenter are correct.’

Okay, let us see where that takes us.

‘we need to go back to the reason that the predators found such a hospitable a base within the Catholic Church.’

Yes.

‘What was it about the Church that so enabled their predatory behaviour?’

‘They knew they were joining a body that would make it easier for them to survive and prosper. ‘

Yes.

‘Their behaviour would be covered up throughout, their critics – even child victims - would be silenced;’

In the main, yes.

‘once caught they would be recycled to another parish where they could start all over again.’

Only where their own element held positions of authority. Even today, for example in the USA, there are really two Post Vatican II Catholic Churches. The semi-orthodox one that encourages Catholics to believe and practise their faith, and the pink one which is more akin to a paedophile ring than anything else. This is made up of seminarians, priests, bishops and they will cover for themselves akin to freemasonic brethren. There are parishes in the USA which are ‘no-go’ areas to non gay clergy.

‘They knew the Church was fit for purpose in terms of enabling child rape. This is the crux of the problem.’

And that is why it is absolutely essential that the problem is dealt with. Just one anecdote I heard from a young family the other day. They were in Rome, stopping in a religious house, and the men stayed in one dormitory, ladies in the next. Half way through the night a seminarian jumped in to the bed of the man and tried to molest him. The man beat him senseless and they left. This is happening all over the world, even now. Meanwhile there is almost total denial, because people do not want it to be associated with homosexuality so they refuse to make that first presumption that could explain the infection and allow it to be excised.

What has happened is that a group has infiltrated a profession for its own purposes. It has also infiltrated many other professions that have not been subject to the same scrutiny as the Church. How tragic it would be if it were allowed to continue, out of fear of offending the ‘gay community.’

John, Let’s presume that the views of the gay rad...

2012-06-13T19:23:05.849+01:00

John,

Let’s presume that the views of the gay radio presenter are correct. Because as you say there is no point in ignoring evidence (even if he presented none, which is fine as he is allowed to express an opinion) we need to go back to the reason that the predators found such a hospitable a base within the Catholic Church. What was it about the Church that so enabled their predatory behaviour? They knew they were joining a body that would make it easier for them to survive and prosper. Their behaviour would be covered up throughout, their critics – even child victims - would be silenced; once caught they would be recycled to another parish where they could start all over again. They knew the Church was fit for purpose in terms of enabling child rape. This is the crux of the problem.

Saint?MaryHedgehog,

Keep up the good work. When I look at what you do compared against that corrupt clown Cardinal Egan in the States, it reinforces the view that the clergy can hardly discourse with any authority on ethics.