Comments on The Pensive Quill: I am a Dissident

Cracroi, I have not read the book but have it her...

2010-11-30T14:59:59.794Z

Cracroi,

I have not read the book but have it here and browsed through it. I took the view that he covered all manner of dissident opinion. He gave the Blanket a strong mention.

Alfie,

Moloney’s take is somewhat more nuanced. He could admire the efficiency with the way things were done while not admiring what was done.

He actually argued that the Master should get the Nobel Peace Prize on the grounds that Kissinger got it and he had killed more people than the Master.

Interested,

It is a term with many inflections. When dissidents dissent from something we oppose they are alright. When they dissent from us they become rogues. The term was applied here and was corrupted and corroded by the dominant discourse to the point that it began to smell. Rather than get rid of the smell republicans who dissented abandoned the word.

AM Very good piece as most of your analysis tend ...

2010-11-25T19:03:14.579Z

AM
Very good piece as most of your analysis tend to be , I am at odds to know where how and why this word “dissident came into Irish republican thinking . Who decided to call those who oppose them dissidents . The people who fought the war against British rule for centuries are they all dissidents , including Emmet Pearse and Tone all dissidents . The Provo’s were a splinter group of the IRA so they themselves were dissidents , and if my memory serves me correctly I don’t recall the IRA calling them dissidents or for that fact Traitors . As always the Provo’s have done there utmost to change the true meaning of Irish Republicanism by inventing tall tails and long ones.

Ruairi Well said, you will get used to Mickey tho...

2010-11-25T04:27:36.086Z

Ruairi

Well said, you will get used to Mickey though the general consensus amongst posters here we have no idea what he rattles on about.

not disseident and proud.. independent and proud...

2010-11-24T22:33:31.679Z

not disseident and proud..

independent and proud

Michaelhenry, I dont think i explained myself pro...

2010-11-24T22:21:52.157Z

Michaelhenry,

I dont think i explained myself properly with my last post. As a young republican i am a dissident for a number of reason's, mainly all due to PSF's lies, arrogance and lack of ability to deliver on any of their promises to my generation.

Since leaving school, and university I have failed to secure any meaniful work. I have since gone back into education (at my own cost) because PSF and other parties have failed to fulfil their promises, on investment, jobs, etc etc and most importantly unity. Unity is further away than ever under Adams' reign.

Dissident and proud.

Michael, "SINN FEIN is the 32 party of the p...

2010-11-24T16:56:48.473Z

Michael,

"SINN FEIN is the 32 party of the peace process"

The repeating of that same old inane mantra hardly addresses the points I raised with you?

Robert- SINN FEIN is the 32 party of the peace pr...

2010-11-23T23:16:05.593Z

Robert-

SINN FEIN is the 32 party of the peace process-

did not realise that the mexicans wanted to be british-

Des dalton is head buck in republican sf- dissident,
[ a good few books and a good film about the dalton gang. ]

Comrade Helen- better to hang by a thread than to...

2010-11-23T23:07:59.204Z

Comrade Helen-

better to hang by a thread than to
fall from grace- read this,

The d.u.ps lord morrow has branded
Gerry McGeough and VINCENT McANESPIE dissident republicans,

Lord morrow also attacked SINN FEIN
m.p MICHELLE GILDERNEW for being a
cheer-leader for the two, his words

Gerry McGeough responded- " I would
like to put on record that VINCENT
and I are mainstream republicans
and not so called dissidents "
Gerry also said-
" I wholly support the peace process and am very alarmed at lord
morrows accusations " his words-
[ tyrone times, page 2 ]
read it and weep.

Anthony, "I would question this interpretati...

2010-11-23T22:28:48.671Z

Anthony,

"I would question this interpretation. Moloney would acknowledge the skill employed in his conning of the grassroots but he would not agree with the con."

If I remember correctly, Moloney argued that Adams and co. gradually inveigled - by deception and ambiguity - the more militant grassroots of the republican movement into adandoning armed struggle, while at the same time weakening the IRA. The result of this, I think he argues, was that when a split did occur, it was small and weak. The implication of his argument - though Moloney doesn't state it explicitly - is that there may have been a bigger, more potent split if the leadership had been honest. I think he actually makes a comparison between Gerry Adams's success and Cathal Goulding's failure. Now that's just the sense I got; I take your point that that may not be Moloney's view.

I am a Dissident Helen, Thanks. I don’t think ...

2010-11-23T14:19:19.546Z

I am a Dissident

Helen,

Thanks.

I don’t think the state should ever be allowed to marginalise the term dissident

Michaelhenry,

‘i have to say that i think that it is cheap politics for anyone to say that they support the dissidents - and leave it at that’

As so often you miss the point. Dissidents are people who dissent from the administration of British rule. Why are you not one? Not all dissidents support armed campaigning. That was pretty clear from the piece. Just as not all supporters of the peace process have support peace throughout it.

Robert

‘Refusnik’

Hmmm.

Alfie

‘I think the main reason many in the media were willing to support Sinn
Fein and denounce any dissent was a fear that if the Adams wing lost
control of the PIRA, then it would return to violence and there would
be more Omaghs, Enniskillens, etc.’

Which sort of makes them players rather than news gatherers, much like RTE when it decided to truncate Vincent Browne’s scathing critique of Cowen.

‘I remember reading "A Secret History of the IRA" and getting the sense that Ed Moloney had a grudging admiration for Adams for bringing the bulk of the PIRA with him into the peace process and that Moloney believed that deception was perhaps necessary for this.’

I would question this interpretation. Moloney would acknowledge the skill employed in his conning of the grassroots but he would not agree with the con.

‘the leadership ought at the very least to have been honest with volunteers.’

Agreed

Marty, This is utterly futile but the daily `turk...

2010-11-23T12:34:59.590Z

Marty,

This is utterly futile but the daily `turkey shoot' with Michael is great value. His posts are like being `mauled by a dead sheep'.

Robert the psf ie the pope,s special friends invo...

2010-11-23T12:03:19.937Z

Robert the psf ie the pope,s special friends involved in crime never never never, well ok maybe,but just the odd misdemeanor,and the Master bater would not have known about any of this,as he is to busy saving Ireland,Mickeyboy it was just a little over 90 years ago that the unionists and dummy tits ruled over almost every aspect of life in the whole of this country it took a bloody revolution to shift the balance of power back into the hands of the people in 26 counties and now you want them back why not go the whole hog and get the party to surrender the 26 just as they have the wee sick counties

Michael, "telling a joke does not counter th...

2010-11-23T08:40:47.683Z

Michael,

"telling a joke does not counter the fact not only do unionist political partys refuse to take part in policing boards in 26 IRISH counties but they also take no part in policing in england scotland or wales- and they call themselves british,"

You would have made no less sense on these matters had you said, "not only do Yucatan political partys refuse to take part in policing boards in 26 IRISH counties but they also take no part in policing in england scotland or wales- and they call themselves Mexican"

Joint Policing Committees, or Policing Boards as you refer to them, in the Irish Republic are comprised of:-

•Chairperson – Local Authority representative
•Garda Officers nominated by the Garda Commissioner
•Local Authority members
•Members of Oireachtas for area
•Community/Voluntary sector representatives

Robert Mugabe's Zanu-pf party, it could be said, are not represented on these committees for the exact same reason none of the Unionist parties are. They don't organise in that jurisdiction, have no elected members of local authorities,Oireachtas or have a presence in the community or voluntary sector and are therefore not eligible to sit on those committees.
You claim that Unionists have refused to participate. I will gladly accept a bloodied nose on this by you informing me of the where,when and who??
The situation in relation to England, Scotland and Wales is no different than that in the Republic. The whole essence of Policing Boards is about local oversight and liaison. Why for instance would people in Lothian and the Borders, or Tralee for that matter, want a councillor in Cullybackey overseeing local policing matters unique to that area?
What you omitted to mention from your party political broadcast was that Sinn Fein, 'the main law and order political party in Ireland has been implicated in relocating and harbouring an alleged paedophile, multi million pound bank robbery and murder. Did you mention the `Dalton Gang'?

Michaelhenry, "Compalin about Sinn Fein but ...

2010-11-23T02:01:28.164Z

Michaelhenry,

"Compalin about Sinn Fein but brag no other group".

I have been posting here just a little over a year now and I haven't seen one post, that I can recall, that brags of any "political organization" or other "republican groups?" No one on this site is calling anyone "master" or "main law and order political party".

You make no sense in your babble at times. You are amusing and sometimes witty, but your logic hangs by a thread.

Michaelhenry, "with SINN FEIN involved in po...

2010-11-23T01:53:21.480Z

Michaelhenry,

"with SINN FEIN involved in policing boards across the 32 counties- this makes SINN FEIN the main law and order political party
in IRELAND".

Well michael, if that's the case, then Sinn Fein must have been aware of McGeough and McAnespie's pending arrests in advance and allowed it to happen?

If that's not the case, then would you do me a big favor and ask your "Master" and the rest of Sinn Fein, (since they sit on the RUC/PSNI policing board, and "they are the main law and order political party in Ireland") to challenge McGeough/McAnespie's arrest and ridiculous diplock court trial and tell the Brits to let them go free?

Hey, what's a favor among comrades?

Robert- telling a joke does not counter the fact ...

2010-11-22T22:02:27.372Z

Robert-

telling a joke does not counter the
fact

not only do unionist political partys refuse to take part in
policing boards in 26 IRISH counties but they also take no part in policing in england scotland or wales- and they call themselves british,

ff, fg, labour, and the rest of the 26 county partys do not take part with policing boards in the six counties,

likewise the s.d.l.p does not take
a place on 26 county policing boards- hence

with SINN FEIN involved in policing boards across the 32 counties- this makes SINN FEIN the main law and order political party
in IRELAND.

Michael, "SINN FEIN are the main law and ord...

2010-11-22T19:14:58.925Z

Michael,

"SINN FEIN are the main law and order party in IRELAND"

Tom Lehrer certainly did'nt contemplate you when he declared satire to be dead. Incredible - absolutely barking!

Michael, "there are days when i support poli...

2010-11-22T16:26:53.315Z

Michael,

"there are days when i support policing in all of IRELANDs 32
counties yet there are still times
that i would criticise them"

But there isn't the same police force in all of Ireland's 32 counties - there's an Irish one in the south and a British one in the north. Sinn Fein, despite all of their bluster, support a British police force, the PSNI. Do you? If so, why do you complain that the dissidents don't kill enough of them?

Anthony, "And it has worked. But it can also...

2010-11-22T14:57:13.389Z

Anthony,

"And it has worked. But it can also be undone."

"I am a refusenik",perhaps offers the terminology which better describes your position?

MARTIN McGUINESS statement worked no dissident ki...

2010-11-22T11:37:46.751Z

MARTIN McGUINESS statement worked
no dissident killed a brit soldier or cop since that remark was made.

michaelhenry is clearly confusing correlation with causation.

Back to the topic at hand though, the ultimate example of the fallacy of equating dissent with violence is Martyn Frampton's recent "Legion of the Rearguard", where he is only capable of explaining any kind of political dissent in terms of its relation to armed groups. I suppose given his background (Henry Jackson Society, ICSR) that's exactly the way people like him want it.

Ruairi- feel sorry for those that need pity you ...

2010-11-22T11:02:28.384Z

Ruairi-

feel sorry for those that need pity

you don't claim to have fought a war- which is very honest
but you also use the word can't-

there are more armed groups going about now than there was when the armed brits patroled our streets-

nice Quote you used at the end from
the PROVO hunger-striker
BOBBY SANDS- and you are right
that saying is as true to-day as when it was wrote.

fionnuala-

i rate the master of equality very
highly.

AM, This is an excellent article and it hits the...

2010-11-22T01:14:05.608Z

AM,

This is an excellent article and it hits the nail right on the head.

As your article points out, the label “dissident,” at least within the framework of the GFA, suggests something dangerously negative or subversive and therefore it is deliberately used in that context for the sole purpose of discrediting anyone who speaks out against PSF or the British government. It is used in a way to attempt to keep those who would otherwise question or criticize the status-quo, in line. Thus, the powers that be get to keep control of their power base without having to deal with the reality of their mistakes.

The dictionary defines the word dissident as "disagreeing or dissenting as in opinion or attitude.” That’s why I believe Gerry made it a point to criticize Mairtin O Muilleoir reference to him as a “dissident” for all the same reasons you mention here.

Thank you for this article Anthony, this needed to be said.

michael henry, your fanatical acceptance of the P...

2010-11-22T00:46:45.366Z

michael henry,

your fanatical acceptance of the PSF leadership is so pitiful.. i feel so sorry for you..

you cant or wont even attempt to think outside the PSF narrative.

I am only 24.. I cant and dont claim to have fought the war, but even I can see that PSF have not only lied to the wider republican movement, they go out of their way to destroy any independant thought in the wider republican movement..

Bobby Sands - "Everyone, Republican or otherwise, has their own particular part to play. No part is too great or too small; no one is too old or too young to do something."

michaelhenry, You are being led by a man who remem...

2010-11-21T22:58:16.837Z

michaelhenry,
You are being led by a man who remembers aiding election campaigns in 1964.
All those years a republican to the core apparently, yet the Master never saw fit to join the IRA, why?.
If your yardstick for measuring republicans is their active service or kills, how do you rate him? Coward maybe!

alfie- there are days when i support policing in ...

2010-11-21T22:06:48.867Z

alfie-

there are days when i support policing in all of IRELANDs 32
counties yet there are still times
that i would criticise them- like to-night when they protected the
failed goverment at the dail
against the IRISH people-

SINN FEIN are the main law and order party in IRELAND,
they are the only political party
involved in policing boards across
IRELANDs 32 counties.