Comments on The Pensive Quill: PUP membership back to GFA levels

James a cara might I suggest that they are more lo...

2013-04-20T17:55:19.952+01:00

James a cara might I suggest that they are more loyal to the half crown than the crown....I remember they declared war on the crown in the 70,s lasted about 20 mins...

Apparently by all accounts the PUP are to set up o...

2013-04-20T14:37:11.053+01:00

Apparently by all accounts the PUP are to set up offices in Armagh, Banbridge, Lurgan, Portadown and Tyrone There you go, nice wee hot bed for the mid ulster brigade again.

I watched a u tube speech by Billy Hutchinson in Portadown not that long ago and it basically was street loyalist politic 1980's style.

I congratulate their stance for being a voice Working Class loyalists, protestants, unionists. However, what type of voice will it be, if you claim to represent only one section of the religious -political working class, sure that is further institutionalising a divisive mindset especially in the youth that is flocking to the party.

You cant have socialism for one set of the working class. Billy is buying into the whole SF/DUP electoral sectarian strategy of "equal but different" culture, even for the working class.

Christ, I know he is loyal, so he says, is he loyal to the crown or loyal to the working class, as both are simply bi-polar of each other and there is no amount of plaster to even attempt to hold any argument together on both can complement each other.

He is doing his masters work, maybe by not knowing it, what the outcome will be a grouping of far rights, centers and moderate lefts all with the rhetoric. Therefore it is a populace party again with socialist slogans. Sounds like I have heard this all before from the unionists and nationalist parties. I genuinely have my doubts about his socialism, whatever form, it seems the PUP are using the WC overtone as a recruitment drive for more of the same.

Maybe it is time other socialists took of the rosy glasses here.

Who knows, I wonder will they this year be at the May Day parade?

It seems the good Dr has not done his homework on...

2013-04-12T15:25:38.735+01:00

It seems the good Dr has not done his homework on the UDA/UVF/RHC, because they are all the same Troop.

Surely he has seen the photograph of a local UDR unit with a banner supporting the stand off at drumcree.

Surely he must know those of the UDR who were sentenced for murder , collusion etc. It's all in the public domain DR Edwards.

Anthony:

Sorry about the duff link. its here. It has been stated in stormont that the NCA has been rejected, this is an understatement. the British over ruled it.

NCA Brief

Fenian 'For the first time since the formatio...

2013-04-12T14:07:53.864+01:00

Fenian

'For the first time since the formation of the Protestant State for a Protestant people they are having to face the stark realisation that they have to stand up politically for themselves.'

Exactly. And why should anyone reach out to them? The nearest contemporary version of a Standish O'Grady they can even come up with is a mural on a wall suggesting Cu Chulainn was a mythical Ulster Prod defending Ulster from Irish attack. Let them flounder. If a rabid dog is dying why the fuck give it mouth to mouth?

Marty

A Dr. indeed? Obviously never researched the stats' for UDR men doing time for UVF/UDA related murders and activities.

Dr Edwards says"Nigel Gardiner who like Bobby...

2013-04-12T12:48:22.372+01:00

Dr Edwards says"Nigel Gardiner who like Bobby was a member of the udr and had no paramilitary background" for fuck sake where did you live during the troubles a cara the udr/a/uvf /rhc was not a paramilitary organisation,have a look at the history of that non paramilitary organisation..it was at that point I stopped reading your post.

The PUP may have used the 'fleg' as a rall...

2013-04-12T12:04:40.373+01:00

The PUP may have used the 'fleg' as a rallying cry but the City Hall protests are a symptom of something much deeper simmering under the surface. For decades they have reaped the rewards for their services to HRM in her spread of colonialism and imperialism throughout the world. They have been richly rewarded in jobs housing etc in favour of catholics and this blatant favouritism was the catalyst for the Troubles. In return the unionist parties took their unwavering political support as a given. However, since GFA they have seen their working class strongholds diminish through unemployment, poor education and rife criminality/drug dealing decimate the social cohesion within their communities. However, the straw that has broken the camel's back regarding their cosy relationship with Whitehall has been the threat of having their paramilitary alliance with the Crown Forces being exposed! This once unshakable loyalty to 'Big House' Unionism was rocked when Robinson was ousted in his own constituency. For the first time since the formation of the Protestant State for a Protestant people they are having to face the stark realisation that they have to stand up politically for themselves.

Aaron, thanks for agreeing to allow your piece to...

2013-04-12T11:04:06.145+01:00

Aaron,

thanks for agreeing to allow your piece to feature here in the knowledge that being mauled is always a possibility!

Some things I would like to comment on.

You seem to link the origins of the party in the Protestant working class having borne the brunt of the Provo campaign. I often find this an incomplete explanation, something that is frequently put out to deflect from the fact that the the bulk of the Provo campaign was directed against security forces. Perhaps you are suggesting a closer affinity between the Protestant working class and the security forces than we would normally allow for but it is still hard to reconcile the deaths of so many British soldiers as the Protestant working class taking the hit, whatever affinity they felt to the soldiers.

In terms of the bombing campaign I think it is easier to argue that society inclusive of all classes took the hit.

You refer to the PUP at one point having its numbers artificially inflated by UVF members. But what would be artificial about that? In my view there might be something more artificial about the current influx than the UVF membership which made up the party around 98 and helped define its character.

While it is argued in the piece that Dawn Purvis is identified with the drift away from the left, I would think that she, in the social liberal sphere at any rate, has behaved admirably on issues like Marie Stopes.

I have the view that the PUP under David Ervine was knocking on the door of polite society. That society was prepared to let him in but it wanted the party to use the side entrance. Billy Hutchinson doesn't seem to have the temperament to drink tea with the vicar and is too rough at the edges for the political class. I have been at conferences where he made more of an impression on people like me than all the polite people did.

Yet, the flag protest always invites the question of there being an additional motive on the PUP's part separate from being unionist/loyalist to it. Is it really an assault on identity that is being responded to or is it an assault by the British state (rather than by SF) on the ability of the strand of loyalism represented by the PUP to operate in a manner that would make it meaningful and politically relevant? Perhaps it is political autonomy rather than political identity that lies at the heart of the problem and the PUP has responded in a strategically refracted way, the flags being the smoke signals about something else.

Did the PUPs flip flop on the flags issue? My und...

2013-04-12T10:28:34.402+01:00

Did the PUPs flip flop on the flags issue? My understanding is that they initially favored designated days until they saw the level of opposition and made an opportunistic grab for some populist support.

michaelhenry 'If as stated the PUP were a soc...

2013-04-12T09:23:44.471+01:00

michaelhenry

'If as stated the PUP were a socialist working class party, what would that make Sinn Fein?.'

A very spineless Thatcherite unionist party in the North and a toothless outfit in the South.

download pdf from here. get pdf information

National Crime Agency here

2013-04-12T01:49:53.310+01:00

National Crime Agency here

CONFERENCE APRIL 26th Belfast/Good Friday Agreemen...

2013-04-12T01:43:19.582+01:00

CONFERENCE APRIL 26th Belfast/Good Friday Agreement.
CAJ in collaboration with the Transitional Justice Institute at the University of Ulster and the Human Rights Centre Queens University Belfast invite you to attend our: CONFERENCE ‘Mapping the Rollback? Human rights provisions of the Good Friday Agreement.

"Now we have have the NCA.

The National Crime Agency, A covert agency run by MI5, which has been put in place , covertly and secretly without anyone being told it is in operation and outside PSNI eyes.

Have I not stated this on a previous Post!. I urge everyone to get to this and listen very carefully as to what is actually happening to Policing in this province of Ulster, naturally minus three of its Counties which reside within the 26 counties.

I was in Athy last week, and was , to say the least, disturbed at events which took place.
I , and, others are adamant that this will cease.

Michaelhenry: You cease to amaze me at times. Th...

2013-04-12T00:33:49.944+01:00

Michaelhenry:

You cease to amaze me at times.

There's me thinking you fully support the GotFuckAll piss process. If as stated the PUP were a socialist working class party, what would that make Sinn Fein?.

PUL the other one ffs. Influx? Just an influx of y...

2013-04-11T23:02:28.533+01:00

PUL the other one ffs. Influx? Just an influx of young bucks looking some action. National Socialism resonates from history somewhere, can't quite put my finger on where and when.

Adams said today republicans must reach out to unionists. Why?

SF croppies are back on their knees and the loyalists couldn't care less. And they never will.

So the PUP membership went up because of the union...

2013-04-11T22:16:05.149+01:00

So the PUP membership went up because of the union flag dispute-
Did those extra numbers disappear along with most of the flag protesters that used to be on the roads and streets- out of sight-out of mind-