Comments on The Pensive Quill: Thoughts on Anarchism & the Irish 'National Questi...

Sean, I totally disagree the war took on a very di...

2011-11-04T12:14:55.522Z

Sean,
I totally disagree the war took on a very different dynamic. There was never an overt or covert strain of sectarianism than ran through republicanism. In the early days the IRA was essentially a defence force, however, as the war went on a very different momentum came to the fore.
Yes there were some overtly sectarian strikes, however they came as a result of a demand from within their own community.
Our people were being slaughtered and slaughtered in the most gruesome fashion.
The Brits and the RUC were proactive in aiding and abetting a murder campaign against the Catholic/ Nationalist/ Republican community and now all these years later we are being told, you were sectarian for defending yourselves.
The Shankill bombing was never planned to murder innocent Protestant people. The UDA apparently met in that row of shops. The bomb exploded prematurely, unlike the ones that were tossed into Catholic premises, no warnings and designed to murder as many as possible.
Were the UDA right in defending their areas? They would not have had to defend them had they not engaged themselves in a murderous campaign against the 'other' community.

Fionnuala, I completely understand where...

2011-11-04T00:05:57.435Z

Fionnuala,
I completely understand where you are coming from. Half of my family are originally from Ardoyne, but I think self-defence is one thing and what took place later one was a different question and took on its dynamic and endless cycle that delivered nothing. Do you believe than that the UDA was right in defending their communities from a perceived threat(real or imagined)?

Sean

What were republicans supposed to do Sean, sit bac...

2011-11-03T22:53:37.150Z

What were republicans supposed to do Sean, sit back and let the communities they belonged to be murdered and burnt out?
If it had not been for a few republicans with a few weapons in Clonard in 69, God only knows what would have been unleashed.
I was raised in a republican family and I lived in a street which was divided along religious lines.
I never heard one word of sectarianism ever being uttered in my home, that didn't save us though, nor did it stop them smashing our windows and chucking the odd petrol bomb and this was pre-69.
I'm quite aware that sectarianism pre-dated partition, it was imported into us during the plantation.
Loyalist and Orange bloodletting has occurred when there was no IRA campaigns.
Catholics are still being kicked and beaten to death, maybe that's why we need to hold on to our defender mentality.

Also I would even be wary of using the term left w...

2011-11-03T18:06:16.285Z

Also I would even be wary of using the term left which comes in many shapes and sizes. Left co-operation is quite different to left unity. While, I believe in left-co-operation in common campaigns and stuggles. Anarchists have different strategies and aims so just like republican unity' left unity will never take place. I also have little time for re-packaged versions of Leninism/stalinism which have failed us miserable in the last century and has more in common with fascism than anything else.

Fionnuala, Sectarianism, nationalism and unionism...

2011-11-03T17:59:29.868Z

Fionnuala,

Sectarianism, nationalism and unionism pre-dates partition. Partition only solidified these divisions.Its always interesting listening to republicans referring to the quote from a former unionist politician that the north is a 'protestant state for a protestant people'. Eammon De Valera actually said the same thing in the early 1930s during the world eucharist congress.
Yes, republicans were not responsible for the 'Orange state' but the last 30 years of conflict has only strengthened sectarianism. Im not in the camp of simply blaming the 'brits' for everything. Republicanism also a distinctive Irish current has also evolved and adapted since the 1798 rebellion. All good in theory but how it plays out on the streets of Ardoyne(often a catholic defenderism mentality) compared to Derry, South Armagh and Dublin is quite different in reality.

Well anarchism is a minority revolutionary tradition in this country and I was not there in the early 1970s but we know that anarchists and socialists where active in the early civil rights movements and mass anti-H Block campaign. Personally I have taken part in any maghaberry protests and the WSM released a statement supporting the prisoners demands and opposing prison repression and torture.

Sean

Liam, That is a totally flawed analysis, we had o...

2011-11-02T11:31:16.332Z

Liam,
That is a totally flawed analysis, we had our sectarianism pre-packed and imported to us.
Republicans were not responsible for the what was unleashed here in 69. They were certainly not responsible for the sectarian horrors that were visited upon the Nationalist, Catholic and Republican people at the formation of this state.
We had an overtly sectarian government and an shamefully sectarian and murderous police force.
How could we come together under a socialist/ workers banner when only one section of our community could get jobs. Where were all the socialist and anarchist voices being raised against that?
Apart from people like Larkin and Connolly I don't remember hearing about too many other groups coming to the fore.
Similar today, mass rallies around their perception of injustice i.e the killing of a member of the security forces. No mass rallies around the on going abuse in Maghaberry, the internment of Marian Price, Martin Corry and the stitch up of Gerry Mc Geough.
As I said in a reply to Sean the 'Women's Movement' and other quasi feminist/ socialist movements used the anti-nationalist argument in part to detach themselves from the violation of republican women in Armagh gaol.
It must only be a certain type of working class than can avail of such rights.

Sean, An interesting and thought provoking argumen...

2011-11-02T09:09:38.595Z

Sean,
An interesting and thought provoking argument which puts the case for the building of a libertarian working class movement.

As well as armed republicans having failed politics which are no different to those of their provisional cousins, they are also engaged in an anti working class campaign which is distinguised by its amateur and reckless nature and which can only lead to an entrenchment of sectarianism.

Sean, very interesting. Sadly though the nationali...

2011-11-01T23:10:02.199Z

Sean,
very interesting. Sadly though the nationalist question has also been used by groups to dodge muddying their own particular waters.
Many feminist groups actually used that argument to justify their lack of any stance in relation to the beatings and strip-searches in Armagh.
Apparently if you are nationalist you cannot have any other string to you bow, as in socialist, feminist etc.
Connolly himself appeared to stand such arguements on their head.
The Orange and Green card was and is divisive by design. Republicans were not the architects of this divided state but unfortunately we are stuck with it.