Comments on The Pensive Quill: Hari and the Magician

2009-09-18T22:06:11.760+01:00

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What the Provisonals under Adams et al accepted in...

2009-09-18T18:56:49.274+01:00

What the Provisonals under Adams et al accepted in the end was pretty much what the SDLP had been arguing to put in place over the previous thirty years.
Sunningdale for the remedial learners!

I don't think it was a complete defeat for PIRA, but it most certainly was not a victory either.

Essentially what they won was limited (or comprehensive, depending on your point of view) equality for "Irish Nationalists" under the British Occupation in the British Occupied North of Ireland.

And very little else.

As well as of course undermining Ireland's national and territorial unity by agreeing to the alteration of Articles 2 and 3, and giving the partionist dominated political establishment in the South a get-out-clause on Reunification.

Well done, boys!

Have been thinking about the Adams assertion that ...

2009-09-18T10:21:50.921+01:00

Have been thinking about the Adams assertion that the Provisionals 'won.' Won what exactly, the right to enter local UK/NI politics on the same footing as the SDLP? Talk about doing things the hard way!
Adams was in the Dail the other day on the NAMA bill observing SF TD'S making fools of themselves. Maybe some of the FF lads will have pulled him to one side and enlightened him to the fact they never decommissioned or sucked the truncheon to engage in domestic politics when their war was over.
It's a real comedy show now watching this out of touch ego in operation...back to the Falls I think for the provo Daniel O'Donnel lol.

Alarming the level/depth of the hippocrisy Adams a...

2009-09-14T16:38:12.871+01:00

Alarming the level/depth of the hippocrisy Adams and Co. have. There's talk now of Unionists seeking money from Lybia. [Money was their only ever objective since plantation] What odds that Adams and Mcguinnes will fall in line as requested and throw their weight behind this campaign?
Is no one able to put them and US out of our agony?

2009-09-13T21:29:10.062+01:00

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Wonderfulformyage, a bleak outlook but one which i...

2009-09-13T20:35:04.782+01:00

Wonderfulformyage, a bleak outlook but one which is not without merit. I don't think it will go that far but time will tell. The defeat of the IRA was so comprehensive that it is instructive in itself. If its campaign could ony achieve what might have been achieved anyway and has dissuaded many from wanting a united Ireland what has a return to anything similar to recommend it, even if a 1969 does come about?

2009-09-13T19:56:35.543+01:00

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Wonderfulformyage, family connection does nothing ...

2009-09-13T15:13:23.190+01:00

Wonderfulformyage, family connection does nothing to influence my political views or interests. My wife is more tuned into the healthcare debate than I am although my view of the US healthcare system has never been warm. Obama is better than what went before but I dislike the way he is surrounded by control freaks eager to suppress discussion and marginalise critics.

The US being a world leader matters not – something either captures my interest or it does not. The world is a mosaic made up of big and small pieces. People choose what they want to look at or are drawn to it for whatever reason. The scent is raised and off we go where our noses take us.

Danish politics and French are covered by enough English speaking media so following them would not be as difficult as you suggest. Rwandan politics and Argentinean which I have been more interested in are in a similar position. It would be different if I wanted to write a biography on Bagasora then French would be a necessity but that is not where I am at.

I think the scenario you outline has long been reached – whereby SF and the peace process generate little interest. I sometimes wonder why I still write about it – the scorpion and the frog comes to mind; it’s in my nature. The United Front Against Bullshit also helps explain. As contender for Bullshitter of the Year (every year) SF has few rivals.

Back to 69. I just don’t see that happening. It is a major victory for unionism to have seen off republicanism and to be faced with that sorrowful lot up at Stormont screaming bull day in day out. SF will make it work because there is nowhere else to go. A defeated IRA, a redundant republicanism with no future prospects, an internal solution. It does not augur well but things would need to change drastically before 69 comes round again.

2009-09-13T14:15:04.070+01:00

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Wonderfulformyage, the same reason I don't co...

2009-09-13T08:42:31.378+01:00

Wonderfulformyage,

the same reason I don't comment much on Danish politics at all or French or German. No time to follow it, no time to write about it.

2009-09-13T00:22:13.137+01:00

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Hello Westie, I don’t feel the ‘need’ to emphasi...

2009-09-12T22:46:18.946+01:00

Hello Westie,

I don’t feel the ‘need’ to emphasize the point. I think the opposite may be true – all the proclamations about the undefeated army show a ‘need’ to deny the obvious. I suppose I have long been impressed by Christopher Hitchen’s professed membership of the United Front Against Bullshit. So when I read bull I tend to comment on it. That is why I comment on religion quite a bit. Nothing more filled with bull than that. If you consider the nonsenses that are put about – Gerry never in the IRA, Freddie Scappaticci not a tout, Bobby Tohill’s kidnap a barroom brawl, decommissioning would never happen, Joe O’Connor shot himself (or something as near as to make no difference) – all that prompts me to comment. So when I read nonsense like I did in the Hari piece that the Provisional IRA campaign was the only one not to end in failure the bullometer hits the ceiling and I am tempted to comment. Not much wrong with setting the record straight. It might irritate you to be reminded of the obvious but that is not my intention.

It matters not in the slightest that many of my ex comrades disagree. They all disagreed on the issue of decommissioning as well. They can have whatever opinion they want but it is not binding on me. Given that I found my own opinion more reliable over the years than theirs there is no reason for me to pay too much attention to what their view on anything is. If they want to believe Ireland will be united in 2016 that is up to them. I don’t believe it for a second and have no doubt that my opinion on this will prevail.

How much equality is there in the North? Sinn Fein and the DUP alike have equal rights to call for republicans to be jailed and touted on. The Irish language – shafted; the Maze regeneration proposal – shafted; devolution of policing and justice – shafted. As Peter Robinson says the North is being run to a unionist agenda.

When was the RUC disbanded?

In terms of reforms there have indeed been quite a few and things are the better for it. But the Provisional movement was an anti-reformist movement. It laughed at the idea of equality as being of any real benefit within a partitioned state. I thin with hindsight they were wrong but that was their position. A revolutionary energy aimed at abolishing partition was harnessed to energise reform within a partitionist framework.

The type of change that was achieved was not worth one volunteer’s life. I know no volunteer who risked life for what was gained. What we have today we always regarded as a total defeat. I think you are right about ‘the brave men and women of the Army’ but their bravery was used for a different project altogether. The bravery they put in was not reciprocated by what political results came out.

Westie, I think you are a reformist and I have not the slightest criticism to make of you for that. I am not a revolutionary and prefer reform myself. But I am not going to describe it as something other than it is. Were the SDLP to have had an armed wing then today’s outcome could be claimed as a victory. They never wanted to smash Stormont but to be in it.. But that can hardly be said of Sinn Fein with its armed wing.

Best

Anthony

Anthony Can I ask a question that flags up in my ...

2009-09-12T10:38:59.171+01:00

Anthony

Can I ask a question that flags up in my mind frequently whilst reading through the articles from time to time.

Why do you feel the need to emphaise so often your own opinion that the IRA campaign was a complete (you have used other adjectives) failure.

I don't have an issue with your opinion at all, that's what we're all entitled to, it's the frequency and emphasis on this point that I find a little puzzling. You must realise that there are many of your ex-comrades who would disagree with your assertion, and that a lot of them continue to work for and aspire to the ultimate objective of reunification.

I believe that the IRA campaign was totally legitimate and the right thing to do. I believe the war was the main reason why we have equality in the North, why we have so much rights and access to Irish language for our children and communities, why the RUC no longer exists and nationalist amd republicans hold positions of power in many organisations and institutions. Imo, we would never have achieved as much change, had it not been for the brave men and women of the Army, who got the attention of Downing Street through their deeds and intentions, and provided a negotiating lever that could not be ignored.

Of course, we didn't achieve a United Ireland by the time the campaign was (rightly imo) called to an end, but I don't equate the above achievements and future aspirations arising out of their inspiration as failure. I don't think we ever thought that the brits would just up and leave through military aggression on our behalf - I think we always aspired to some sort of time bound commitment on their behalf - alas it didn't happen, and a different tactic had to be deployed, but to describe this as total failure is disingenuous, in my opinion of course!

Slán

Westie

Great piece, A. Not much to add as you note to wha...

2009-09-11T19:18:36.890+01:00

Great piece, A. Not much to add as you note to what's been said or not said by the Bearded One, but that explanation of how the IRA this generation met not defeat even by his standards or lack of took some convoluted phrasing. I think he's more inspired by Dev than he might let on. Cute hoor.

2009-09-11T17:44:18.433+01:00

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