Comments on The Pensive Quill: Republican Contradictions

Maitiu Skywalker Thanks for taking the time to m...

2012-10-30T08:05:54.383Z

Maitiu Skywalker

Thanks for taking the time to make your comment. It is welcome here. While I agree that poverty seeks at all times to burrow its way into the already impoverished, Belfast Bookworm did present figures that would suggest the ‘poverty hits all equally’ perspective is not without flaws.

Sean. I just clicked on the link you gave above. ...

2012-10-15T21:27:17.166+01:00

Sean.

I just clicked on the link you gave above.

Thats an exellent piece you wrote.
Congratulations.
Seems we are equal thinkers.

And your connolly quote, "You Can't Eat Flags", just said it all.
Credit were credit is due.

Sean, just to let...

2012-10-15T19:01:11.810+01:00

Sean, just to let you know Davey Larmour(former British and irish boxing champion) from the Shankill Rd helped with the launch of the Wristband"we demand leisure facilities now" campaign in Ardoyne today.

Itsjustmacker, I agree with every single thing you...

2012-10-13T18:05:20.402+01:00

Itsjustmacker, I agree with every single thing you say but until every working class man & woman recognises that their so called counterparts who kick with the other feet are actually far more likely to be discriminated against in jobs, education, housing blah blah blah, then working under the banner of equality is a non starter.

Protestant working classes are treated like shite - sure you've only to look at the houses around the Donegall Road, many of which still have outside toilets or the vested land on the Shankill set aside for private developers, but that doesn't take away from the fact that nationalists get a much more unfair deal.

That's not me spurting some nationalist conspiracy either
- that's statistical fact. The DSD, the department responsible for addressing deprivation like this have even been known to bury reports showing how better of PUL communities are than nationalists so that they can justify pouring money into communities unequally. One such report was around 2001 & carried out by PriceWaterhouseCoopers - perhaps Matiu & Andy1690 would care to go digging for it & one they see the evidence they might even change their minds.

Belfast Bookworm. I Agree with Maitiu , but not...

2012-10-13T04:27:31.832+01:00

Belfast Bookworm.
I Agree with Maitiu , but not with the figures he quoted, But i agree with him that we should all get together , but, that would be like Goliath beating David, or, was that just a myth, until those opposed to nationalists realise we are all fighting the same battle for equality and those in power living on the highest hill they can find , paid for by us morons who voted for them whilst we, when I say "we", I mean every working class person on this Island of which we all live, only, and, only when we all decide enough is enough , shall we win and we shall all be equals, No Upper , No Lower Classes, Just one class irespective of class or creed.

Maitiu: I don't think anyone on here believes ...

2012-10-12T22:28:21.065+01:00

Maitiu: I don't think anyone on here believes that life was/is 'fab' for loyalist communities. It has simply been pointed out that nationalists were and are the unequals among unequals.

I think it was Roddy Doyle who said that the Irish were the blacks of Europe. Well nationalists are the blacks of the north and if you believe otherwise then you really should walk a mile in the shoes of one.

Rathcoole and its surrounding areas are undoubtedly deprived, but if you consider statistics, rathcoole is far better off, sitting at around rank 30 in terms of multiple deprivation than say Ardoyne, a community of similar size, that sits at around rank 7. This means that in terms of employment, housing, education, health and access to services, rathcoole is better off.

I agree with your point of us all needing to come together as one but until you recognise inequality then we'll get nowhere.

Andy1690; you are a fool. Ballysillan LC is most definitely not used equally by the catholic community.

Fear, Mobility and Living in the Ardoyne
and Upper Ardoyne Communities, a research study carried out by Peter Shirlow through UU found that on 16% of Catholics from Ardoyne used ballysillan while 84% of Protestants from Glenbryn used it.

Can you cite where you got your figures from?

The Ballysillan Leisure Centre is in a PUL area bu...

2012-10-12T09:16:28.749+01:00

The Ballysillan Leisure Centre is in a PUL area but is used by both sides of the community in equal numbers.

No housing shortage in loyalist areas? well ok the...

2012-10-09T14:55:37.072+01:00

No housing shortage in loyalist areas? well ok then, despite the 2 year waiting list for Rathcoole, Rathfern is 3 years, Monkstown is 2 years.

Rather facetious to read that some people honestly...

2012-10-09T14:53:59.476+01:00

Rather facetious to read that some people honestly believe life is so fab for the loyalist community. Having grown up in Rathcoole and Monkstown, during most of the conflict, it should be well noted that we had nothing in those areas. Even to this day, the DUP etc do not even bother to get help for the youth in our area. Rathfern youth club had zero funding. We had an old pool table, a foam ball and a few other little pieces that were donated to the club from locals. Poverty was just as much in loyalist areas as it was in republican areas. Though, come election time we have the DUP coming around the doors promising that everything will change and it never does. The majority of the positive changes within Monkstown, Rathcoole, Rathfern have all came about from the hard work of the local PUP and UPRG. They had to fight and fight to get anything out of the government to help the community.
We need to come together as one and work for the benefit of all communities.

belfast gonzo 'If someone from north Belfast,...

2012-10-06T11:33:19.871+01:00

belfast gonzo

'If someone from north Belfast, where I live, is too lazy to get to the nearby centres like the Falls, they probably wouldn't be darkening the door of a leisure centre anyway.'

priceless i doubt if anyone posting about the issue ever uses one haha

The last thing Belfast needs is another rates-sapp...

2012-10-05T02:16:03.254+01:00

The last thing Belfast needs is another rates-sapping leisure centre.

If someone from north Belfast, where I live, is too lazy to get to the nearby centres like the Falls, they probably wouldn't be darkening the door of a leisure centre anyway.

sean 'counter-revolutionary' ??? zzzzzzz...

2012-10-04T21:10:11.236+01:00

sean

'counter-revolutionary' ???

zzzzzzzzzzz where are you exactly..Mindanao? Please tell me you're not in Stormont talking that antiquity..

it clearly blames caral cullen as culture/sports m...

2012-10-04T17:20:23.228+01:00

it clearly blames caral cullen as culture/sports minister and the misrepersentaion from sf/sdlp at stormont and city council as well as unionist politicans.
sean are you really saying that the nationalist community in north belfast are not being treated like second class citizens and are not victims of sectarianism with the allocation of sport,leisure and health facilities.For the whole of Ardoyne,New lodge,The bone,ligonel,carrickhill,bawnmore etc they have nothing not a football pitch,not a proper gaelic pitch,not 1 3g pitch,in ardoyne not even a pre creche facilitie,no leisure centre to use fucking nothing.
While we have ballysillan leisure centre and football pitches,the valley(rathcoole) leisure centre and football and hockey pitches,the grove leisure(tigers bay) centre,
loughshore(mount vernon) pitches and facilities,the shankill leisure centre and mutiple facilities and i could go on and on.
so sean maybe you should take a walk around north belfast or try and rare and family in it and and then say that the allocation of facilities is not sectarian.

Sean take a look at the locations of leisure facil...

2012-10-04T15:30:39.272+01:00

Sean take a look at the locations of leisure facilities swimmimng pools etc in the Lisburn area and tell me its not sectarian,one small Brooke activity centre located in Twinbrook to serve Twinbrook,Poleglass,and Lagmor,ffs.

Firstly, I don't believe their is a sectarian ...

2012-10-04T12:39:38.368+01:00

Firstly, I don't believe their is a sectarian policy of discriminating on the basis of leisure centres today.

The whole article flawed from start to finish based on a sectarian premise. Is devoid of any class analysis and blames the 'other' community rather than a right wing Tory policy imposed by Stormont.

The same sectarian cycle of blaming them prods and 'orangies' rather than the root cause of the problem.

I have also spoke to other republicans in relation to this article and they too believe a bit of 'house-keeping' is in order.

To take this a step forward, the reason why I oppose Orange Order parades through contentious areas is not to defend the catholic community, but because it is a sectarian counter-revolutionary organisation that targets 'dis-loyal' prods as much as anyone else.

Incidently, membership levels for the OO are at the lowest ever due to the rise of secularism more than anything else.

so why do you not have a problem with people highl...

2012-10-03T13:48:06.062+01:00

so why do you not have a problem with people highlighting the sectarian alloctation of leisure,sport and health facilities, when you are part of highlighting sectarian alloctation of houses.
this is want i cant understand unless your telling me that ardoyne,the newlodge,the bone,ligoneil,bawnmore,carrickhill etc dont need sport,leisure and health facilities and im not stating this because there catholics,there human beings and i would me stating this injustice if it was happening to the protestants or the polish community or who ever.
and im not a cathoilc either sean.

I was not there to protest for Catholics given I a...

2012-10-03T12:28:44.627+01:00

I was not there to protest for Catholics given I am not one. I was present to protest against sectarian allocation of housing and for housing based on needs.

An article I wrote on the issue

http://www.wsm.ie/c/carve-girdwood-site-belfast-sectarian-reality

"yes, i was present at the protest and no it ...

2012-10-02T14:48:34.333+01:00

"yes, i was present at the protest and no it is not a sectarian issue " sean, im still confused can you explain to me how protesting for catholics to have equal and proper housing is not sectarian but protesting for catholics to have equal and proper sport,health and leisure facilities is.

The OO is not about respecting difference. It is a...

2012-10-02T10:38:35.061+01:00

The OO is not about respecting difference. It is an institution with foundational sectarian qualities that thrives on superior notions vis-a-vis the 'other'. Residents groups should be wary of the wolf in sheep's clothing when considering meeting with the Orangemen to discuss contentious marches. For it is the very institution that is contentious.

Agreed.

2012-10-02T10:04:14.043+01:00

Agreed.

belfast bookworm It has long since dawned upon me...

2012-10-02T09:15:11.188+01:00

belfast bookworm

It has long since dawned upon me that the removal of the backbone has replaced the green book where the republican movement are concerned. Don't mind in the least the discarding of the wee green book, but i for one am retaining me backbone!

Larry: You were always on the money about SF &...

2012-10-01T22:57:58.840+01:00

Larry: You were always on the money about SF & community groups - their policy of infiltration to control hasn't changed since the days of the tenants associations etc.

Regarding this latest incident of Carrick Hill residents V the OO, it had genuinely started off as a resident-led campaign. However, slowly but surely it seemed that the SF/Stoops/Irsp line of 'let's respect difference, diversity & all that shite' seeped through and all of a sudden the residents thought it was a great idea to be dignified in their protest - if protest is what it was.

The parades commission breathed a huge sigh of relief because the residents made their decision for them when they said they had no problem with a march & as a result sf breathed out because their nice wee process of peace hasn't been rattled & they've one less flashpoint to worry about.

Funding & community jobs is what some people in CH will say was the reason behind the move. Sure you wouldn't believe that for a second!

Mickybroy I cant make them out a cara but look at ...

2012-10-01T21:54:35.478+01:00

Mickybroy I cant make them out a cara but look at the eyes of the geek at the front def ex dummy tit,

belfast bookworm 'I retract my earlier commen...

2012-10-01T20:26:49.490+01:00

belfast bookworm

'I retract my earlier comments about the Carrick Hill residents group. It seems they were eventually led by the nose'.

Was i on the money re SF and community groups? Just curious, you are there i'm in the south, so i'm wondering.

Sorry to butt in with a Question-but does anyone k...

2012-10-01T19:41:53.743+01:00

Sorry to butt in with a Question-but does anyone know about medals-

There is a photo in todays Irish news [ page 8-9 ] of the east belfast UVF band and two of its members are wearing medals- both look to be in their eary 20s so they could have got their medals in Afganistan or Iraq- the pair of them are probley still in the brit army- cant be their fathers or grandfathers medals because the bandsmen have them on their left side-