Comments on The Pensive Quill: The Weird World of an Irish News Journalist

What pisses me of is the cherry picking. The RUC/P...

2013-08-09T16:34:30.598+01:00

What pisses me of is the cherry picking. The RUC/PSNI want the tapes for a fishing exercise, put black lines through what they don't want the publc to know or other. I doubt if they had 'ethics' on their minds either when asking for the tapes. I think it was to settle old scores and cover up the truth (re-write history). But I don't see them asking other journalist's who have written about the troubles or reported on them being asked to reveal their source's.

The simplest answer is to have a real T&R process. And as difficult this will be for some people, there has to be an amnesty across the board. If that means former state forces getting of the 'hook'...That's the way it has to be (otherwise it wont work). Doesn't mean families can't find out what happened to their loved ones. But I don't see the logic in spending money in court fee's etc and locking up someone because of something they did 20/30 yrs ago. Which under normal circumstances they wouldn't have done or even thought about doing in the first place had the o6c not imploded
.
As for Allison Morris...as It'sjust pointed out in a previous post. She puts herself in harms way all by herself by the nature of her job. She doesn't need anyone's help in that dept. Maybe I missed something again.

I've seen people talk about free speech and censorship. Speaking personally, I've never been censored here. But I know of certain republican forums/blogs that it's impossible/difficult to post on.

Frankie, I belive the actions of Both Morris and ...

2013-08-09T14:11:29.196+01:00

Frankie,

I belive the actions of Both Morris and Barnes did serious harm to source protection and oral history. I think the distinction is she did it with no foresight - nobody I knew had foresight on that matter. The problem with Barnes' position is that eveh if he had no foresight, after it all happened he called for the tapes to be handed over to the PSNI. Morris at least doesn't think they should be handed over.

Anyway, I guess I will be hauled in front of the Ethics Council again or threatened by some libel lawyer.

Here's the thing. Big stick journalism won't work here. It does not matter what libel lawyer jumps on the case, how many Ethics Council hearings they hold. One determined writer/blogger absolutely adamant that they will not buckle, will not pay one red cent, and who is prepared to go to jail in defence of the freedom to write, can't be beaten by Ethics Councils or libel lawyers. Those big stick merchants can never win the battle if just one writer is prepared to take them on and face them down. I can assure you without fear of being contradicted - I am that writer.

Let them do their worst.

Frankie, the Ethics Council - waste of space. Now...

2013-08-09T14:00:40.434+01:00

Frankie,

the Ethics Council - waste of space. Now that I have won my case (and I always emotionally see it as a victory against the Ethics Council rather than against Morris/Barnes). I think I will simply quit the NUJ. What point is there in me forking out monthly dues to keep a bureaucracy like the Ethics Council in being? What did it do during Leeveson other than pursue me? I think the union ethos is to protect journalists before it protects journalism. And that means journalists not doing the job. All jobs should belong to the function of journalism; they should bever be the private property of journalists. Although, that has really nothing to do with this case - just me going off on a tangent about the union.

If it were not for the worlds media focusing their...

2013-08-09T13:13:26.080+01:00

If it were not for the worlds media focusing their attention on the happenings here in 69 ,we would have went from a low key pogrom to genocide on a large scale, the lesson of the power of the media was quickly absorbed by everyone in the nationalist community especially the emerging new republican movement,we have had many decent decent unbiased journalists over the years who were not afraid to ask the establishment the hard questions and seek to investigate the motivation of the different paramilitary groupings here , Susan Breen springs to mind here , Barney Rowan is a thoughtful observer also, we have had loads of Nick the brit Witchels and Gorbels Gibney, Barnes , Hugh Jordan and Morris are in that tradition ,Fred Holyroyd would have loved them ,the point I,m labouring over here is that journalism has played an important role here and throughout the world ,there are I,m sure more good ones than bad ones but to censor them with threats would have a negative effect on all reporting leaving us all at the mercy of the state ,so for that reason alone I can tolerate the Morris ,Barnes and Jordans and Gorbels Gibneys all I do is exercise my democratic right and ignore their rants,there has been controversy on TPQ before regarding non de plume and I take the view that the message is more important than the messenger,and the posters comments about the partner of Allison Morris are entirely in keeping with the comments that this man who uses the non de plume fido has posted for us all to see on TPQ, his comments here have left a lot of people doubting his capability in working with young kids his conviction is neither here nor there in my opinion, threats whether real or implied are no way to win an argument or influence opinion,quisling $inn £einds tactics which initself are a throwback to the sticks should have taught some people that.

Maybe I'm slow on the uptake but I'm missi...

2013-08-09T11:37:36.006+01:00

Maybe I'm slow on the uptake but I'm missing something. You (AM) got hauled before the ethics council because Allison Morris and Ciaran Barnes (he seems to have gotten away unscathed) said you put their/her life in danger<--That point missed me. I don't ever remember reading you threatening anyone or advocating violence towards them. So I've really understood the 'charge' in the first place.

The other thing that misses me regarding the ethics council. Didn't they see or have the foresight to realize by Allison's & Ciaran's interview with Dolours Price and printing it would put major problems of any piece of oral history/investigative journalism getting off the ground.

Didn't their editors even think along those lines?? I bet all they seen was 'scoop, big headlines,...money' somehow I don't thing the word 'ethical' entred their minds.

As for the author of the article. Paul Campbell could be a real person, could be a pseudonym. Paul Williams could even be a woman (wasn't JK Rowling outed recently penning as a man)..

And what Kev said..

It would be most unfortunate if an opinion piece - and that is all the above is regardless of length, links and content - caused needless bad feeling between republicans with common ground that should be maintained even during rough patches.

There is more to unite republicans than divide them.

I understood that Hugh Jordan's piece wasn't defended but the right to hold his views was. I understood Am spoke out about the pack circling Hugh Jordan baying for whatever. Play him (Hugh Jordan) at his own game. Take him to task in the print/radio media and expose his untruths. But putting threats or veiled ones on FB or other isn't doing anyone any favours.

Ciaran, you have had your say and made your case...

2013-08-09T09:01:53.195+01:00

Ciaran,

you have had your say and made your case. Others can decide whether it is persuasive or not. Had the same tone been used against Hugh Jordan by those seeking to intimidate him he would have been on the back foot by now. But there we go. I am off to write about something more interesting than Fido although he seems to like biting people too ... Luis Suarez.

1. Clearly the true identity of the writer is bein...

2013-08-08T22:57:53.913+01:00

1. Clearly the true identity of the writer is being hidden from the readership of TPQ. I dont think it is Mackers or his 'other half' (his words) but i have no doubt he is 'protecting' (again his words) the writer from scrutiny. Pious lectures from Mackers towards myself regarding 'suppression of the truth' should now be treated with at least some scepticism.

2. "Although given the number of names you have used it is hardly likely to bother you". Mackers, i was once a singer and used my mothers Maiden name when i did that, probably due to post Gaol trauma and a wish to escape the past for the odd night, which you should really understand. 'Paul Campbell' was clearly doing their homework on me though, fair play to them. No comparison to inventing a spoof name like 'Paul Campbell' to hide behind while snaring republican activists, such as you have allowed happen on your blog.

3. I have never threatened a journalist in my life, please refrain from insinuating that i have done that to Jordan. I reserve the right to speak my mind about Hugh Jordan, he after all has the financial clout to say what he wants about anybody he likes.
My writings have never contributed to anybodys death, has Hugh Jordans????

4. To compare some facebook comments about Jordan to what happened in the Murph in 2000 is clutching at the straws of reality and displays and element of desperation on your behalf to justify dragging RNU into your NUJ spat.

5. I have never been a fan of Alison Moris' work myself and have been victim of it in the past, in fact im pretty sure both you and her stung me in seperate articles in the one week around 2001.

6. The Pensive Quill allowed RNU and individuals to be dragged into Anthony McIntyes personal spat with Alison Morris, this was in order to add spice to the attack.
Somwhere in Mackers mind he can justify that, but in reality it is an abuse of power, all the fine words in the world cannot excuse sinking that low.

Itsjustmacker, ran out of it but am still off to ...

2013-08-08T22:38:41.971+01:00

Itsjustmacker,

ran out of it but am still off to bed. Good night.

Kev,

an interesting post. And a good summing up of journalistic practice. The writer is of course free to talk to the subject and report that the subject said whatever to TPQ. At the same time I would not want you to think that I have not been in touch with Hugh Jordan. I have.

Good Night Anthony: I agree 100%. Just opening a...

2013-08-08T22:04:10.621+01:00

Good Night Anthony:

I agree 100%.

Just opening a brandy, but before I do, Logging off Blogging. lol

Itsjustmacker, of course you didn't condone i...

2013-08-08T21:36:11.841+01:00

Itsjustmacker,

of course you didn't condone it. I didn't mean for you to take that out of it either.

One point I would like to make before falling asleep is that because we defend Allison Morris from attack does not mean we approve what she writes.

Same applies with Hugh Jordan.

So for now, good night!

Ciaran, Strangely given ‘all the Social and Pol...

2013-08-08T21:31:50.667+01:00

Ciaran,

Strangely given ‘all the Social and Political upheavals we are currently facing In Ireland’ so many seem interested in giving Hugh Jordan a moral knee in the balls.

Again the point is missed. What Hugh Jordan writes is not being defended. What is being defended is his right, just like yours, just like all the people beaten and intimidated by the Provos, not to be threatened and bullied.

Bottom line should last night’s piece have been censored?

I thought I would stick this piece in, which I pos...

2013-08-08T21:20:01.636+01:00

I thought I would stick this piece in, which I posted on the Rushlight last Year, It,s from one of my older Rushlight Magazines.

Everything in it is Factual and True, and , It proves how low the British will stoop to.

Thought it would brighten things up a bit.

Sep 17, 2012 - 1:50PM
Quote from rushlight vol 21 No14 page 19 to 20, One Mans Terrorist, etc
This is intriguing. and its by our very own Historian, The one and only, Joe Graham.

ONE MANS TERRORIST IS ANOTHER MANS PRIME MINISTER,, or,, Is it the other way about, ONE MANS PRIME MINISTER IS ANOTHER MANS TERRORIST.

Arch Bishop Marchiaros of Cyprus was a Terrorist, President George Washington of the USA Was a Terrorist , Prime Minister Begin of Israel was a Terrorist , President DeVelera of the so called Irish Republic was a Terrorist , Bobby Sands Member of Parliament was a Terrorist.
Mother England is very ready to name call people who oppose rule of England in their own country, Yet when the chips are down and England is kicked out , They wine and dine Yesterdays Terrorists on the lawn of Buckingham Palace , Bickies and Tea with the reigning Monarch of England. The first four mentioned were afforded this pleasure!..Poor Bobby Sands , like Wolfe Tone, Died in a Dreary Prison Cell!..You See.. "Terrorists remain Terrorists" , ,unless they kick England out.
Back in the late 1840's , England lined nine Irishmen up in a Dublin court and convited them of Treason, Having been involved in the "Young Irish Disorders". The nine were, Sentenced to death by hanging and their bodies were to be, Drawn and Quarterd, After the judge had been told by the men in the dock, "We are sorry we were caught, If we had to do it again we would be more careful, but if you be lenient with us we will do better the next time,, We wont be caught.
After many protests , Queen Victoria commuted the sentences to Transportation to Australia.
All the Terrorist were taken in chains aboard a prison ship and landed in the far off land. NOW THEN , who were these Terrible nine Irish Terrorists , did they take to a life of crime and terror in the new country.
The nine were , Charles Gavan Duffy , Terrence McManus , Richard O' Gorman , John Mitchel , Michael Ireland , Pat Donahue , Thomas McGee , Morris Lyene , and , Francis Meagher.
Some 25 years later England discovered some startling facts about the nine men who they banished Banished and labbeled Terrorists.......
The nine men rose to High Offices Abroad, and Here are the facts.

Terence McManus..............Brigadier General U.S. Army.
Thomas Meagher...............Governor of Montana.
Morris Lyene.................Attorney General of Australia.
Richard Gorman...............Governor of Newfoundland.
Patrick Donahue..............Brigadier General U.S. Army.
Michael Ireland..............Attorney General of Australia. After Lyene term.
John Mitchell...........Writer and New York Polotician, his son became mayor.
Charles Gavan Duffy....Became Sir Charles Duffy, Prime Minister of Australia.
Thomas McGee.......Member of Parliament,Montreal, Minister of Agriculture and
...................the President of council Dominion of Canada.

Now isn't that one for the records.

Verse of an auld song.

The scotch have their Thistle.
The Welsh have their Leek.
Their poets are paid about 10 pence per week.
Provided, No harsh words of England they speak.
Oh Lord!, what a price for devotion.!

Ciaran, Who was the author Mackers? The au...

2013-08-08T21:16:50.445+01:00

Ciaran,

Who was the author Mackers?
The author identified themselves in the article as Paul Campbell. If they wish to make any more detail about themselves public they are free to do so. Although given the number of names you have used it is hardly something that will bother you too greatly I imagine.

If you think the author was part of the TPQ team – either me or my other half - that would be a gross mistake. I always write under my own name; she under hers or Rusty Nail. The author was a guest writer wholly external to TPQ but obviously writing for publication in TPQ and on those grounds would be within their remit to talk to whoever they like as TPQ. When I wrote for publication in Parliamentary Brief or the Politician I would report that ‘such and such had told Parliamentary Brief whatever...’

Anthony: I just put the link on stating She said ...

2013-08-08T21:06:10.988+01:00

Anthony:

I just put the link on stating She said she was attacked with Bottles.

I didn't say she deserved it, and , I sure as Hell Don't condone it , even if it was Jordan himself.

Ciaran, I can see why you might arrive at the con...

2013-08-08T20:51:56.770+01:00

Ciaran,

I can see why you might arrive at the conclusion the author reads as if part of a non-existent stable of Pensive Quill writers and then raise your questions.

However, many people particularly those that have been through some journalistic training - even at a very low level - will often refer to the publication they are penning a piece for rather than themselves.

I have no personal knowledge of the author but my reading was the individual who wrote the piece had spoken with Jordan but as the piece was for the Quill, and possibly raised with Jordan on that understanding, when he referred to the 'interview' they described it using a typical journalistic style of 'spoke with The Pensive Quill'.

Even if the author hasn't had journalistic training, they write with an investigative style that could also mean they picked up the phrasing from reading investigative pieces in the press.

However, I can also see why you would have concerns. I personally didn't see the need to link RNU material and possible mistakes (we all make them and there's no shame in it) in a piece which was mainly an incisive exposé of possible journalistic hypocrisy. Though again that to me makes me think a new or newish writer who perhaps made a mistake of clumsily tying together what really are two separate stories into one.

Further like you I find the Sunday World a terrible read on many levels and I wouldn't have them on a Top Ten list of outlets with a strong record of integrity. Most republicans won't give its content much consideration, indeed I'd be surprised if many buy it beyond those looking the number of a masturbation sex chat service (I'm sure such republicans exist though they'll not be holding up their hands - with a telephone in one hand and a kleenex in the other we will drive profit to SW advertisers) so I see little reason being irate enough to call for extreme action to prevent its distribution.

Now I've lost my train of thought.... it was that kleenex quip, made me think of Bangers and that always distracts me, not in a kleenex fashion I hasten to add.

Finally I'll note your dignified and comradely comments to Anthony when he has published a piece which includes some comment on you you are justifiably angry about. That controlled response does you credit and I'm sure like many you'll be able to separate Anthony's dedication to free speech (which he clearly has suffered for) and avail of your right or reply, right to ignore or right to dismiss and ridicule.

And remember what the author may see as negatives in your past, many others will be reading as positives.

It would be most unfortunate if an opinion piece - and that is all the above is regardless of length, links and content - caused needless bad feeling between republicans with common ground that should be maintained even during rough patches.

Now that I've drifted close to agony auntism I really will stop typing.

Ciaran, It is very much a free speech issue so do...

2013-08-08T20:32:56.596+01:00

Ciaran,

It is very much a free speech issue so don’t delude mislead yourself into thinking anything else. It is about the right of Paul Campbell or any other person to express an opinion that you don’t approve of. What could be more free speech than that?

The ‘internal spat’ you refer to is also a free speech issue but again you seem to have let it go over your head. It is about two members of the NUJ along with its Ethics Council seeking to censor another member of the union. What could be more free speech than that?

Is TPQ supposed to censor something because you might not approve of it? Or censor it because you have been supportive of me in more difficult circumstances than we face today?
Your personal generosity is not in question nor is it the issue. Whatever was said about you by Paul Campbell fades into insignificance to what has been said about me on TPQ. Why would I shield you from opinions you don’t approve of when I don’t shield myself from them?

If it is ‘particularly disturbing’ for you to be reminded of the Joe O’Connor killing then it would be because the very intolerant, censorious, bullying mindset that killed him is at play again today and you unlike last time round, are not facing it down. And that I suppose erodes the value of your criticism of Joe’s Killers. I am probably as well placed as anybody to recognise the similarities given that I faced it all down (without taking anything away from your own stand at the time) and the follow up, from house picketing, physical attack, smearing, whatever. And I see the same mindset today.

Will get to your other points shortly.

Sorry for repeating myself folks. But can Mackers ...

2013-08-08T20:18:48.279+01:00

Sorry for repeating myself folks.
But can Mackers please answer me the simple question, Is 'Paul Campbell' the real name of the author of this article?
If so, no problem ill apologise for my doubts.
Im only interested if the truth is being suppressed, and of course why?
It was good enough for everybody else to be named on here, and no doubt in the Sunday Rags this weekend as a result.

Itsjustmacker, and she has every right to be pro...

2013-08-08T20:12:27.091+01:00

Itsjustmacker,

and she has every right to be protected from the thugs that threw bottles at her. It does not matter in the slightest that she has been trying to make life hard for me. She is a journalist, has the right to news gather and nobody has the right to attack her. This is not something that can be extended to some journalists and denied to others.

From Ardoyne Republican I'm very sur...

2013-08-08T20:05:45.927+01:00

From Ardoyne Republican

I'm very surprised that RNU, Ciaran and RNU have been dragged into an article that is supposed to be about the integrity of Journalist, Allison Morris?

Hugh Jordan for many, many years has been at the centre of sick & dangerous stories against Republicans. He even employed an ex-Special Branch member
to track down the Tout, Denis Donaldson who ended-up killed shortly afterwards!

His offending article about my late Parents was vile and not grounded in reality. Coming a week after my sister's vindication was damning to say the least. Why did he not investigate her self-confessed Abuser? Beggars belief
a chairde for a so-called Investigative Journalist!

As for my comments about him, I make no apoligises, he put himself in an ivory tower and I'm determined to knock him off it. I will defend the integrity of my deceased parents till the day I die.

I asked Mackers to publish my original blog post about Jordan's vile article and he rightly advised me to remove some bits, which I did. As I respect his judgement on these matters and others. I also apoligised online
to Eileen Calder, as I wrongly attributed certain parts to her based on false sceal.

As for the rest of my rants about Hugh Jordan, I stand over all my other words. Those who wrote on my wall are quite entitled to do including, RNU, Ciaran and/or Fernando Murphy. After all, they are part of society and have
a right to express themselves. One cannot call for free speech and at the same time censor those they don't agree with!

The above article is ill-judged and comes across as an attack on Morris, Murphy, Cunningham, RNU and I. I don't believe that RNU, Ciaran nor me should have been included in it, after all we have nothing to do with Allison Morris or Fernando Murphy in the above issues!

However in their defence, Allison Morris has done a great deal of good work in helping my sister, Mary and exposing her Abuser over the past few years.

Whereas, Fernando Murphy is clearly one of many young men who got caught up in a riot during conflict with British Troops in Ardoyne, social hazard living here people! He has done some brilliant work with the reams of disadvantaged youth in this area and that ability should be recognised. His conviction would not have seen the light of day, had British Soldiers not been on our streets, but that's another story.

Finally, I strongly believe that dangerous people like Hugh Jordan and his ilk should be exposed by those of us who can articulate ourselves online.

After all, he's well used to demonising and criminalising Republican Activists whenever he gets the chance through that rag he works for!

Allison Morris of the Irish News said she had been attacked with bottles at the Divis bonfire site

Dixie a chara, firstly i hate the type of politics...

2013-08-08T18:49:05.844+01:00

Dixie a chara, firstly i hate the type of politics you outline above and would cut my eyes out before i would engage in them. Indeed i was hospitalised by the Provo thought police in 1999 having been seen marching behind the IRSP banner on the Bloody Sunday march.

Now for those of us who still engage in republicanism, we know one price is that gutter hacks like Jordan lie in wait to type drivel about us, they now attack ex POWs and the dead who they know cannot sue them. My place of work and movements have been published by his rag putting me and others lives in danger.

These are the people who also printed a photo of A SUICIDE VICTIM on the front page on Halloween, for kicks. Comments against Jordan on Ogs page represented grass roots disgust at his cowardly attack on Martin Meehan senior RIP.

Now with all the Social and Political upheavals we are currently facing In Ireland, last night Mackers choose to focus his attention on giving Hugh Jordan a moral knee up in his blog, which no doubt will also provide his headlines for this Sunday.

Its up to Mackers to justify why he needed to drag RNU and people like myself (who only a few months ago was offering him a place to stay if he ever needed it) into his personal spat with Alison Morris. But surely if he is now deciding to go even further and lecture myself and others about 'not suppressing the truth', then i am entitled to ask the simple question...who actually wrote the article?
Furthermore, did the Pensive Quill interview Hugh Jordan?
Read the article, one moment it reads like a guest piece, the next it makes it clear that Jordan spoke to TPQ.

Simple questions i would have thought.

Ciaran wise up cara. I'm certain knowing Macke...

2013-08-08T16:52:33.983+01:00

Ciaran wise up cara. I'm certain knowing Mackers as long as I do that he wouldn't resort to the type of thing you are inferring.

My problem is that I see various shoots springing up which are becoming smaller versions of Adamsism. This is one example; trying to put doubt in others minds about an individuals motives if he/she doesn't agree or criticises.

Where does it stop Ciaran?

I'll give you an example of what happened to a former volunteer here in Derry who was fearless and who spent time on the Blanket. He later took to drinking to block out what he did only after seeing it had all been a waste of life.

During the so called decommissioning debate he was openly critical of what, he like the rest of us, saw as the surrender of weapons.

One evening he was leaving the bar when 4 boyos were waiting in a car outside and told him to get in. Two of them said to him, "We are all friends here but that can change unless you keep your opinions to yourself."

Now there are questions being raised about two of those thought thugs. Thats a fact. Also one of the two should never have been in PIRA given his propensity for abandoning operations and weapons yet he managed to use the Movement for his own interests.

I'm not saying thats you or anyone else but we all know how Adams and McGuinness managed to derail the Juggernaut using those methods. Will we learn from it Ciaran?

Dixie: I agree with everything you stated about t...

2013-08-08T16:36:58.637+01:00

Dixie:

I agree with everything you stated about the Ardoyne Legend Martin Meehan, sometimes I pull the wee book out and start re-reading parts of "Show Me The Man" , Himself and others will never be forgotten.

Ciaran: I can understand were your coming from in...

2013-08-08T16:30:47.715+01:00

Ciaran:

I can understand were your coming from in questioning as to who the writer is.
At first I thought it was all about Morris.

On re-reading the post, I would say without a doubt, The piece jumped straight to Fernando Murphy , also Yourself after roughly two paragraphs.

But What evidence is there to suggest that someone other than the named writer penned the piece.

On RNU Ardoyne Republican (Martin ogs Blog, I see very few comments with named posters , everything is Anonymous except for the few named posters , myself included, I put a piece on the Rushlight regarding todays modern Internment, under the name I use everywere , "itsjustmacker" ,I invited genuine people to reply. I had a total of "ZERO" replies, so , if everyone posted on here as Anonymous it wouldn't be much of a blog , anyone could type what they want , although Anthony has held back post which were attacking another Blogger, That same blogger stated to leave the post as he knew who the person was. actually the same person could be typing as Anonymous and no one would know the difference!. Anthony and a few others on this blog know my full name and were I come from, and , the reason for using itsjustmacker.

I agree Jordan should be censored , but not by abuse which will draw the cops/MI5 in, and , they would be laughing their heads of at making arrests, I'm sure you know were I'm comming from with this, You's don't want to end locked up again chara.

Is 'Paul Campell' a nom de guerre Mackers?...

2013-08-08T16:11:35.183+01:00

Is 'Paul Campell' a nom de guerre Mackers?