Comments on The Pensive Quill: The Famine Plot

Thanks, Anthony and commenters. I admit given the ...

2013-03-12T19:27:51.361Z

Thanks, Anthony and commenters. I admit given the reputation of Tim Pat for his IRA and Troubles tomes I did not bring high expectations to this. But I found it (and John Kelly's "The Graves Are Walking" excellent Famine history last year published--also reviewed on my blog) enlightening. Coogan integrates newer research (the 150th anniversary sparked such) as does Kelly well. It gets beyond the old platitudes and patriotic cant, but it does not dismiss the "invisible hand" at work in mid-19th c. political philosophy and economics that saw Divine Providence and Malthus combining forces to clear the land for fewer tenants and more cattle. (Or was it vice versa?)

Anthony ya see what happens when you dont have Mac...

2013-03-11T12:44:47.453Z

Anthony ya see what happens when you dont have Mac Donalds or KFC or Pizza Hut,the chinks the Indian or the kebab house,the chippie or old Barney Hughes hard baps!

John, more good stuff from you. The religious exc...

2013-03-11T10:36:34.852Z

John,

more good stuff from you. The religious excuse for any sort of atrocity or disaster seems to be ubiquitous: the gays have AIDS inflicted on them because of god's displeasure - the Irish punishment was starvation.

Growing up in Boston in an Irish American enclave,...

2013-03-11T02:05:43.011Z

Growing up in Boston in an Irish American enclave, I have always found the history of Ireland, the famine and as we call ourselves "The Boston Irish" to be fascinating. I have read books on all three topics.

My Mother and Fathers side came from Ireland, they came over here during the 1800's. Thus We were products of the famine "An Gorta Mor"

It was a mixture during my generation, 3/4 were 2nd generation and another quarter of my peers parents were "Off the boat" Our slang for having just come over.

I find it odd that over in Ireland we are sometimes called perjoratives such as "plastic Paddy" while not understanding that we all come from somewhere.

In America, though we are born in the US, none of us are generic blank slates. We all came from somewhere. Often the first thing we ask of another person when getting to know them is "What type of name is that"? "where is your family from"? "Is that Irish, polish, Italian"?

It is through this dance, that we know from where a person s coming from and who they are.

In 7 days we will have a large parade in South Boston and there will be open houses, food and drink will be shared and we will all share the same history of from whence we came.

History is a powerful thing. We should never forget our shared history.

Sounds a interesting book. I will give it a spin, ...

2013-03-10T15:54:11.445Z

Sounds a interesting book. I will give it a spin, it will be interesting to where the author lays the blame on the conditions of the poor Irish. Will it be simply be the british, the protestant, the Irish trading class, weather, or a mixture of them all. One thing is for cetain, History in Ireland is pretty much a nightmare for the poor. I definately got off light, in relation to previous generations and it aint no fairytale now, by any stretch of the imagination. I suppose that is one of the benefits of a debt society and the availability to push back our debt to future generations. I wonder will they curse us for our non sustainable consumerism and pursuit of "debt wealth". Back then is was simple survival, not many choices about it either, whereas today there seems to be too many consumer choices,limited time and the option to live on hire purchase. In ways it is a good thing, but it is certainly not sustainable. I hope he illustrates the role of starving the poor by the landlords, they carry equal contribution of the blame. Today, you see it, right through the property industry with high rents. Free Market rental value of property manufactured by landlords, the media, surveyors, estate agents and soon the housing associations in the private sector in the north. People are emigrating because there is little opportunity for people who played by the rules, got a trade, education and in debt to do so, only to be offered low wages, underemployment, unemployment while the poiical in crowd sit happy enough up in stormont. For example, why did Peter robinson son, steps down from political life to embark a career in communication. Maybe he has eyes on being a political advisor for Peter to the scale of up to £90K in communication and take care of all the publicity and advertising for the party. If the DUP and their stormount pro right allies got their way we would be back in these days again. Stormount has no answer to the economic situation, they are on the pigs back at the expense of us, maybe not a lot has changed really if you look at it..

You think you were hard done by Mary hon ,our clot...

2013-03-10T13:49:45.397Z

You think you were hard done by Mary hon ,our clothes were got from the charity shops I went to school dressed as a cross between a German soldier and a RAF man.but on a serious note hon there must have been a great degree of post traumatic stress by those who survived and the feelings of guilt that is associated with such a traumatic experience, which as you say carried on down the generations,our parents made frugal into an art form,like Bloody Sunday, the Hunger strikes and the great hunger these were all preventable deaths,the potato blight was a natural disaster but like Englands overall attitude to the Irish,human life meant little.so therefore as has already been said,much has been written about that period but even so works like this keeps it in our consciousness and like the brits say lest we forget.

Irelands mass graves r the saddest part of our his...

2013-03-10T12:34:08.754Z

Irelands mass graves r the saddest part of our history imo.
@ BB agreed - this was brill review... definitely will get me claws on this book. I remember my mother getting all distressed reading one of the more insightful books first published aeons ago on the ‘famine’ (in a series of letters) the title of the book eludes me... Eating the bark off the trees they were and grass she told me – horror come on me.

I also remember growing up with of plates of leftover food/endless bowls of vegetable water clogging up the old fridge as my mother could not bear to waste anything... Meals out of leftover meals out of meals etc I wore two sizes too big shoes to school for a year and a half – Dad carefully stuffed them with newspaper so they fitted me feet. I cursed him!

Being poor is like a monkey on yer fukkin back 24/7 as the grotesque, bloated, greed infested, wealthy fart, burp and stomp their way thru this life.

RE: Psychologically, "learned helplessness" may have worsened the prevalence of not only delayed marriages but mental illness and schizophrenia attributed to rural Ireland with its high rates of bachelors and spinsters. (I note that this topic is contested in academia and needs more context than the penultimate paragraph in the advance copy reviewed.)

Nah screw academia – it is true and well known fact that rampant lonliness and mental illnesses esp. schizophrenia followed the devastations... All that fragmentation/ loss of clan continuity/socializing and cultural structures/embedded knowing of who one is could only end up in mental illnesses on ppl. Interestingly schizophrenia in itself is a radical fragmentation of a persons psyche. The whole fabric of a nation was torn to shreds really.

In a modern context one only has to look at Ulster and mental health stats to see generational impact of the troubles– trickle down effect/ptsd/suicide etc.

@ marty yes i don’t think it is a bad thing remembering in song, memorials and such because if they did it once they will do it again... just in different ways....

This is a part of our history that has been writte...

2013-03-10T08:52:40.408Z

This is a part of our history that has been written and sung about ad nauseum,which is no bad thing. I believe we need to remember that dreadful time as we do the period of the hunger strikes,to ensure that we as a nation do not allow our people every again to become pawns in the greedy ambitions of others where one mans misery is anothers opportunity,when we disregard the disgusting images and thuggish stories of our people portrayed by propaganda rags like punch at that time we can find acts of kindness and humanity and bravery in the face of such adversity,that would be hard to find anywhere else on this planet,maybe this is the possibly the seed that Tim Pat Coogans conclusion refers to as turning us into a stronger nation, I like Coogans previous works so I shall get my hands on this one and read it while out and about on the bóthar na ocras on the shores of Lough Melvin

This is a really good review. Ill probably buy thi...

2013-03-09T23:49:15.016Z

This is a really good review. Ill probably buy this book based on it.

The PR of famine chapter sounds quite interesting; manufacturing consent within the public to literally ethnically cleanse by starvation.