Comments on The Pensive Quill: The Ongoing Struggle For Political Status

Larry, As I said there are some former Blanket m...

2011-08-08T22:11:06.783+01:00

Larry,

As I said there are some former Blanket men who would go into the jail now and beat the prisoners along with the screws. I know it in my heart it is what they would do with relish if asked to by their leaders.

AM, Mick, I got O'Rawe's "Blanketmen...

2011-08-08T14:49:49.656+01:00

AM, Mick,

I got O'Rawe's "Blanketmen" from the library today and the prologue was so compelling I ordered a copy from my local book store.

Rory

Rory, Mick Hall is right. Blanketmen is one you m...

2011-08-07T16:42:04.801+01:00

Rory,

Mick Hall is right. Blanketmen is one you most definitely should pick up. Compulsive but straightforward reading. I was talking to a guy today from West Belfast who was telling me how Richard faces little hassle up there now because he is so widely believed and the Shinners are seen to have lied about it and everything else.

Rory In my view it is impossible to gain a full p...

2011-08-06T11:23:35.124+01:00

Rory

In my view it is impossible to gain a full picture of the hunger strikes without reading O'Rawe's books.

Anthony, I have read 'Afterlives' and hav...

2011-08-06T05:03:44.895+01:00

Anthony,

I have read 'Afterlives' and have bought Ed Maloney's 'Voices from the Grave' but have not got into reading it yet. I will read O'Rawes first book as well in due course. I seem to do most of my serious book-reading in the Winter months.

AM 'Imagine former blanekt men standing shou...

2011-08-05T19:10:07.767+01:00

AM

'Imagine former blanekt men standing shoulder to shoulder with screws'.

The same dissbelief that republicans felt from 1994 to mi6 marty at stormont still exists eh? be surprised at NOTHING.

Nuala, Feel free to have it posted here in articl...

2011-08-05T17:40:52.200+01:00

Nuala,

Feel free to have it posted here in article form as a matter of record. That is the beauty of the blog. Years ago when we could not get to the papers that was it. We had no record. Then we stumbled across the web and decided to commit everything. That meant there would be an undeniable record of it. I think that is why The Blanket was valued by the wider community and hated by SF.

I remember being told by the ATN that I had no right to reply to what they said about me.

As for the prisoners Pat knows the score. Is he going to back the screws on this one? I would be very disappointed if he did. Imagine former blanekt men standing shoulder to shoulder with screws.

Alec, I too found Pat not to be part of the lynch...

2011-08-05T04:26:14.682+01:00

Alec,

I too found Pat not to be part of the lynch mob. Unfortunately these days I think he would stand idly by while the lynch mob went about its lynching. I think he knew where he wanted to be from the minute he got out or well before. Is there anyone in his position who can fail to understand what the Clique did to the hunger strikers?

'I can recollect a time in the jail when he was vilified for his outspoken views on the armed struggle by those latter day Adamsites.'

They even prevented him and myself going to the gym at the same time because neither of us shared their take on matters. We were in separate wings and the gym was the one place to talk. They did give him a hard time. In his favour he did have views about the armed struggle going nowhere well in advance of most others. They hated him really for reaching conclusions it took them another decade to reach.

The Ongoing Struggle For Political Status Alfie, ...

2011-08-04T15:49:47.460+01:00

The Ongoing Struggle For Political Status

Alfie,

'In 2005, however, Danny Morrison was spinning a different yarn:

"The first hunger strike ended whenever the prisoners went to claim
their own clothes as they were promised [by the British], and the
authorities turned around and said, 'Oh, no. You have to put on prison
issue, civilian-type clothing to get your own clothes.' So there was a
massive degree of distrust, which is why Gerry and myself were to act
as guarantors with the prisoners."

Not even Gerry Adams would be brave enough to put forward that line of shite.'

That is what it was - a line of bull. Initially Bobby tried to create the impression of movement after the hunger strike ended. He sought to have the protesting prisoners provided with pyjamas and therefore we could claim we were recuperating having reached agreement with the administration. The point of this was not to be put in a position of having to be seen to be in dispute with the Brits over prison uniform. Bobby wanted to create the illusion that this had been resolved; pyjamas would create the impression/illsuion of bridging clothes. Then we would ask for our own clothes to be left in and at that point, when they were not, we could better make the claim that the Brits had reneged. The Brits never at any time agreed to give us our own clothes unless we conformed and part of conforming meant wearing the uniform during the working day.

I can understand Bobby trying everything that would give him a fighting chance but Morrison was still lying in 2005 simply because Richard had put them on a spot and he needed to save face.

The Ongoing Struggle For Political Status Rory R...

2011-08-04T10:44:18.583+01:00

The Ongoing Struggle For Political Status

Rory

Richard O'Rawe's two books outline the matter pretty comprehensively.

Alec,

thanks for your comment but it is always difficult to know how great the impact is. I would like to think it has some effect but it is hard to move mountains.

Mackers, I think I have gotten myself barred from ...

2011-08-03T22:48:10.562+01:00

Mackers,
I think I have gotten myself barred from the AndyTown. I keep re-submitting my reply to Spike Murray but to no avail.
I think my only option, is to contact Mairtin the Managing Director and ask, how can you exchange views when only one view is printed?

The Ongoing Struggle For Political Status Mick Ha...

2011-08-03T14:01:34.176+01:00

The Ongoing Struggle For Political Status

Mick Hall

'although it is difficult not to see it as Bobby Sands, and perhaps others bouncing the PRM into a second hunger strike ... Although, whether the outside leadership should have taken a firmer line is open to debate.'

I think the leadership was opposed to a second failed strike, not a strike per se.

'However to continue with this lie, in some cases right up until today is unforgivable, for how can future generations of republicans plan for the future and avoid the mistakes of the past when they are not given the full picture.'

But that crowd know no other way. They have been lying persistently from the get go.

'I would just add this about Hughes calling off the hunger strike to save a comrade's life. Far from lessening my respect from him as a leader it became greater, for like all great solders his first thought was for the men he commanded, as in his mind volunteers were not mere cannon fodder.'

That was the difference between him and those who held back information from the hunger strikers in 1981.

'but he was not prepared to let another man walk in his shoes ... If only the army council had acted that way during the 2nd HS after the the death of the first four hunger strikers.'

The Clique as an entity rather than the council. But we know who they are and it is clear that letting other men walk in their shoes is what they have long been about.

Mackers, too true, but few of them would say it, w...

2011-08-02T23:49:07.750+01:00

Mackers,
too true, but few of them would say it, well not right out not to your face.
I actually had a long chat with Pat about the prisoners and other issues. I was angry and he was very polite but there was no meeting of minds.

I always credited Pat for his honesty and for his ...

2011-08-02T15:08:43.473+01:00

I always credited Pat for his honesty and for his refusal to be a part of the lynch mob. However, he seems to have fitted into his new roll well and is more than happy to play the game. I can recollect a time in the jail when he was vilified for his outspoken views on the armed struggle by those latter day Adamsites.

‘How do you detach yourself from something so prof...

2011-08-02T11:52:57.307+01:00

‘How do you detach yourself from something so profound?’

Often think about it. I actually know some former blanket men who - I would safely bet my house on - would go into Maghaberry tomorrow and beat the republican prisoners there. You probably know the same ones.

Dixie,

I think the line Pat takes is inexcusable. He knows Adams is capable of anything but has hitched himself to the wagon nonetheless.

The word about Maghaberry is slowly seeping throug...

2011-08-02T01:32:57.258+01:00

The word about Maghaberry is slowly seeping through the hard crust of censorship with the help of blogs like this one. Social networking sites are proving to be useful tools for sharing information and reaching far corners of the universe. Information is the key to building support for the prisoners at home and abroad. The key board is mighter than the pen because it can reach millions of people at the push of a button. Keep up the good work, Mackers.

Mackers, thanks, that is really good to know.

2011-07-31T17:13:11.052+01:00

Mackers,
thanks, that is really good to know.

Nuala, you can always publish them here so that y...

2011-07-31T16:39:05.726+01:00

Nuala,

you can always publish them here so that you at least have a public record of your letters

Anthony, Rory, et al., In relation to the ending ...

2011-07-31T15:31:47.730+01:00

Anthony, Rory, et al.,

In relation to the ending of the first hunger strike, this is what Gerry Adams wrote in 2009:

"In December 1980 the republican leadership on the outside was in contact with the British who claimed they were interested in a settlement. But before a document outlining a new regime arrived in the jail the hunger strike was called off by Brendan Hughes to save the life of the late Sean McKenna. The British, or sections of them, interpreted this as weakness. The prisoners ended their fast before a formal ‘signing off’. And the British then refused to implement the spirit of the document and reneged on the integrity of our exchanges."

Gerry does not complain that the British offer changed from an originally acceptable one to the proposal in the document that was delivered to the prison in December 1980. He seems to be saying that the British refused to implement the new regime outlined in the document and thus they reneged on their offer. But as Dixie and Richard O'Rawe have shown, the document did not contain any of the prisoners' demands. Yet, Adams found "the spirit" of the document acceptable.

In 2005, however, Danny Morrison was spinning a different yarn:

"The first hunger strike ended whenever the prisoners went to claim their own clothes as they were promised [by the British], and the authorities turned around and said, 'Oh, no. You have to put on prison issue, civilian-type clothing to get your own clothes.' So there was a massive degree of distrust, which is why Gerry and myself were to act as guarantors with the prisoners."

Not even Gerry Adams would be brave enough to put forward that line of shite.

All things considered, there is really no evidence at all that the British promised anything substantial in December 1980 to the republican leadership with regard to the prisoners' demands. We just have the word of Gerry Adams and company. Given that they lie about almost everything else, we would be fools to accept it now.

Larry, I am actually holding my breath trying to g...

2011-07-31T14:41:01.543+01:00

Larry,
I am actually holding my breath trying to get the letter published.
We are now working on a 3-1 ratio, with Sean Murray having three letters printed and me one.
Anyway, I'm sure it will see the light of day sometime.

Fionnuala dont hold your breath awaiting a respons...

2011-07-31T13:28:37.999+01:00

Fionnuala
dont hold your breath awaiting a response. SF are away off on a journey of self deception. What used to pass among some of those with a 'profile' as arrogance+eliteism now serves as thick skinned insulation for their new found unionism. The wont wish to address coherent questioning, almost as bad as catching their own reflections in the mirror.

Anthony, Thanks for the clarification. This is no...

2011-07-31T13:16:04.788+01:00

Anthony,

Thanks for the clarification. This is not a subject I would even pretend to be and expert on.

Rory

Dixie, A very good post that goes straight to the...

2011-07-31T12:35:07.709+01:00

Dixie,

A very good post that goes straight to the heart of the issue. As you also point out there is a tendency to accept the chronology as outlined by Sean. That does not mean that they buy into the notion that the boys in the end were not shafted by the Adams Clique, rather that they have bought into the standard chronology of the Clique pertaining to the end of the 1980 hunger strike, which has become embedded. The general Clique narrative has not had it so easy. Richard completely destroyed the Clique’ account.

Rory

Sean being ‘prepared to stand over every word of this statement’ is not the point. His commitment to the hunger strikers is not in doubt. But the issue of the British reneging has been well settled. They didn’t. The first hunger strike failed to move the Brits and on the very evening of its termination Bobby Sands wrote to the outside leadership stating that a new strike would begin.

Larry, In relation to Sinn Fein and the prison vis...

2011-07-31T12:01:46.083+01:00

Larry,
In relation to Sinn Fein and the prison visits, I would say it is more a case of political play than fair play.
To date they have done little or nothing to address the real concerns of the prisoners.
I recently asked a senior Sinn Fein activist via the newspaper to list what they have done.
I would say his response would make interesting reading.

Dixie, Excellent comment. You totally debunked th...

2011-07-30T17:48:07.197+01:00

Dixie,

Excellent comment. You totally debunked the myth of the British reneging on a offer to end the first hunger strike, which is key to the Adamsite defence. As you rightly argue, what we know of the details in the document delivered to Gerry Adams in December 1980 proves that there was no credible offer, hence no deal, hence no reneging by the British.