Comments on The Pensive Quill: Come Out, Come Out, Wherever You Are

John why do you persist in denying what the world...

2011-08-05T21:00:36.778+01:00

John

why do you persist in denying what the world and its dog knows?

'They ran an intranational and an internationa...

2011-08-03T17:38:31.976+01:00

'They ran an intranational and an international paedophile traffic ring whereby those they knew would offend again were moved on elsewhere.'

Have you contacted the guards with this information or is all meaningless hot air delivered with an alterior motive?

To use the suffering of victims as a weapon to libel the Catholic Church is an effront to those who have suffered.

Alfie, 'I think that if a priest strongly susp...

2011-08-03T17:12:59.992+01:00

Alfie,
'I think that if a priest strongly suspects that someone is going to be hurt or killed based on what he has heard in confession,then he should be obliged to tell the police ... What would be so bad about that?'

The reputation of Mother Church I would think. That lies behind much of the systemic cover up. Even where they knew without the confessional seal they still refused to tell the police. They ran an intranational and an international paedophile traffic ring whereby those they knew would offend again were moved on elsewhere.

"‘Bread and wine into Christ’s body + blood i...

2011-08-02T15:01:14.426+01:00

"‘Bread and wine into Christ’s body + blood is simply revolting.’"

'Part of its vampire culture of the undead.'

It seems transubstantiation bothers some more than paedophilia!

Larry, ‘Bread and wine into Christ’s body + blood...

2011-08-02T14:33:56.137+01:00

Larry,

‘Bread and wine into Christ’s body + blood is simply revolting.’

Part of its vampire culture of the undead.

(amended) 'Why would anybody need to confess ...

2011-08-02T11:56:13.795+01:00

(amended)

'Why would anybody need to confess their ‘sins’ to some priest? He is just as 'sinful' if not more so than the next person.'

These crass, stupid comments are laughable?

Why would anyone go to a doctor, who can get sick too? Why would anyone go to a dentist who might have false teeth?

Is this the Protestant Quill? Don't see many signs of 'pensiveness'?

2011-08-02T11:47:17.171+01:00

This comment has been removed by the author.

Larry, Why would anybody need to confess their ‘s...

2011-08-02T09:31:16.254+01:00

Larry,

Why would anybody need to confess their ‘sins’ to some priest? He is just as 'sinful' if not more so than the next person. He can pretend to do Catholic magic like turning ordinary water into 'holy' water but at the end of the day anybody else can claim to do such a trick. Magicians at least have a bit of skill. They have no more ability to forgive anything than you or I have. Why do people not just tell their god directly? The middle man trick is the oldest in the book.

Alfie, "I would suggest that, for a peniten...

2011-07-31T11:55:42.789+01:00

Alfie,

"I would suggest that, for a penitent who has committed a crime, absolution ought to be conditional on surrendering to the police."

It would be difficult to judge which cases. Say an eighty year old confesses abusing someone seventy years before. Or a man stole a sum of money in is youth and went on to become a respected citizen etc.

This would seem to go against the right of an individual not to incriminate themselves, as you quoted in Father carty.

i think a priest should, in the case of a child abuser, make his absolution conditional on the penitent's committment to obtain some form of treatment and to avoid being near children.

"Secondly, I think that if a priest strongly suspects that someone is going to be hurt or killed based on what he has heard in confession, then he should be obliged to tell the police."

As the person is in confession to confess his sins and promise to amend it is unlikely anyone would go to confession and have an intention of hurting or killing anyone.

John, "But it is possible for a priest to...

2011-07-30T13:10:02.399+01:00
John,

"But it is possible for a priest to insist someone obtain treatment or any other thing he thinks is necessary."

But can he make going to the authorities a condition of the penitent's absolution? Fr. Carty says that penitents cannot be obliged to turn themselves over to the police, so I would think not.

"As a rule, child abusers are not likely to go to confession, and if they thought a priest would report them, then the chance of going would be zero."

Perhaps, but we don't really know. As long as a priest cannot even oblige penitents to confess serious crimes to the police, confesson provides an avenue for criminals - including child abusers - to clear their consciences and avoid the legal consequences of their actions at same time.

I would suggest that, for a penitent who has committed a crime, absolution ought to be conditional on surrendering to the police. Secondly, I think that if a priest strongly suspects that someone is going to be hurt or killed based on what he has heard in confession, then he should be obliged to tell the police.

What would be so bad about that?

John 'As a rule, child abusers are not likely...

2011-07-29T20:45:47.414+01:00
John

'As a rule, child abusers are not likely to go to confession, and if they thought a priest would report them, then the chance of going would be zero'.

what about the child rapists hearing those confessions of the 'blue rinse' brigade?

Those old dears must be traumatised also.

Larry, 'Indulgences were supposed to guarante...

2011-07-29T12:13:21.094+01:00
Larry,

'Indulgences were supposed to guarantee a place in heaven.'

A plenary inulgence rightly received takes away all temporal punishment. If you died upon obtaining it you would not need any time in Purgatory.

A partial indulgence removes a prtion of the temporal punishment due and is measured in terms of days or years of what would have been given in penance in the early Church.

This is still the case, in spite of your using the past tense.

Robert,

A very good summary of papal infallibillity.

Alfie,

I meant to get back to you on the Seal of Confession. Father Carty summarised it well. But it is possible for a priest to insist someone obtain treatment or any other thing he thinks is necessary.

As a rule, child abusers are not likely to go to confession, and if they thought a priest would report them, then the chance of going would be zero.

How many of the Churh's enemies have boasted of destroying her from the Roman Empire, to the barbarian onslaught, the Protestant Revolution, the French Revolutionaries, world Communism and now the Pensive Quill. Dream on! The Catholic Church is here to stay, despite many of its defectors joining the ranks of its enemies.

Robert, Violin lessons - great! On the First Vat...

2011-07-29T11:19:50.512+01:00
Robert,

Violin lessons - great!

On the First Vatican Council - amazing as it is, people actually hold that spurious rubbish to be true. Pope John 23 ridiculed it saying he was only infallible when he spoke ex cathedra but he would never speak ex-cathedra. What more infallibility could a pope have than Bobby Henderson of the FSM? Reason over rubbish always.

Robert doesn't that just sum it up. And still...

2011-07-29T10:54:45.488+01:00
Robert

doesn't that just sum it up. And still they refuse to look in the mirror.

Anthony, Apparently nobody turned up at the Vatic...

2011-07-28T23:17:02.249+01:00
Anthony,

Apparently nobody turned up at the Vaticans new violin lessons for school children scheme.

I suppose calling it "Kiddie Fiddlers" was a bad idea

John McGirr, "Things protestants and other a...

2011-07-28T23:09:32.015+01:00
John McGirr,

"Things protestants and other anti-Catholics can never get right:"

"They confuse infallibillity with impeccabillity."

The First Vatican Council has defined as "a divinely revealed dogma" that "the Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra -- that is, when in the exercise of his office as pastor and teacher of all Christians he defines, by virtue of his supreme Apostolic authority, a doctrine of faith or morals to be held by the whole Church -- is, by reason of the Divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, possessed of that infallibility with which the Divine Redeemer wished His Church to be endowed in defining doctrines of faith and morals; and consequently that such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are irreformable of their own nature (ex sese) and not by reason of the Church's consent" --Infallibility at the Catholic Encyclopedia [1913]

Taxi For McGirr!!

overflow from fibber magee thread is transubstant...

2011-07-28T12:38:04.186+01:00
overflow from fibber magee thread

is transubstantiation twinned with transexualisation?

them priests are amazing.

A.M.

'boys' ?

dont forget the 'girlies' and 'girlieboysies' or you'll be in PC pergatory.

john all those things you listed remind me of der...

2011-07-28T12:33:13.322+01:00
john

all those things you listed remind me of derivatives on the stock market. Implausable shite, but destructive none the less.

Anti catholic forces??
Alamo springs to mind...you have fun now!

Indulgences were supposed to guarantee a place in heaven. The practice paid for the new chapel at the vatican/paedophile command centre.

Bread and wine into christs body+blood is siply revolting.

Marty, how dare you! A priest wearing a condom - ...

2011-07-28T11:50:53.246+01:00
Marty,

how dare you! A priest wearing a condom - never. It is against god's law. Under no circumstances would he be allowed to remain in the priesthood if he wore a condom while raping a child.

'Would the pope be really infallible if they w...

2011-07-28T11:22:59.396+01:00
'Would the pope be really infallible if they were not good people?'

Things protestants and other anti-Catholics can never get right:

They confuse Immaculate Conception with Virginal Birth.

They think Indulgences are permissions to sin.

They believe Catholics worship statues.

They confuse infallibillity with impeccabillity.

At least the anti-Catholic forces are consistently wrong!

Anthony maybe they were actually saying "we a...

2011-07-28T11:11:56.690+01:00
Anthony maybe they were actually saying "we are gods people" and that is a familiar saying closer to home,Anyway when Benny the bad boys topped yer man under Blackfriars (what an appropriate name) bridge they filled his pockets with money I believe, now what do you think they would put in Magees, I,d suggest condoms.and a copy of Billys weekly liar.

Boys, you are being tough on the Old Vatican. Men...

2011-07-28T09:22:45.383+01:00
Boys,

you are being tough on the Old Vatican. Men of god are good people, surely you know that, good people. How could they be anything else? Would the pope be really infallible if they were not good people? The one universal church, come on lads, be respectful.

When the allies were going through Germany at the end of WW2 they kept confronting German civilians on the mass murder of the Jews. The Germans are reported to have dismissed it, saying 'we are good people.'

an inquisition against the vatican is needed. I su...

2011-07-28T09:15:42.887+01:00
an inquisition against the vatican is needed. I suggest the Orange Order be given the 'contract'.

Thats the spot Anthony and if its good enough for ...

2011-07-28T08:46:57.250+01:00
Thats the spot Anthony and if its good enough for bankers then its good enough for wankers like Magee!

Marty, Blackfriars Bridge I think it is. God'...

2011-07-28T07:52:27.172+01:00
Marty,

Blackfriars Bridge I think it is. God's Banker Roberto Calvi met his fate there.