Comments on The Pensive Quill: Impotent rather than Important

Nial Tower Hotel Derry 7pm.

2013-04-11T17:46:45.342+01:00

Nial

Tower Hotel Derry 7pm.

Where is the Brendan Hughes Memorial Lecture on Ma...

2013-04-11T12:51:07.236+01:00

Where is the Brendan Hughes Memorial Lecture on May 1st?

Sean Bres, Brendan would have had no reason to lie...

2013-04-08T17:31:04.315+01:00

Sean Bres,
Brendan would have had no reason to lie. He was horrified by the corruption and when he went to Adams was told he was exaggerating.
You might be right about Tyrone because I remember reading they were the least corrupt of any of the IRA units.
However, I don't think the nest filing was limited to Belfast.

Sean Bres check out Lurgan, an entire town fighti...

2013-04-08T14:47:57.069+01:00

Sean Bres

check out Lurgan, an entire town fighting over the pay phone to get hanging mr Duffy this last 30 yrs. Be careful in the foresters lol

slightly harsh ... but only a tad!

It sounds to me like Belfast is as bad as what Bre...

2013-04-08T14:32:12.607+01:00

It sounds to me like Belfast is as bad as what Brendan Hughes said it was, rotten to the core. But at the same time I'm sure there's loads of decent people in that part of the world by the same token. It's a different story down here I feel, certainly wouldn't be anywhere even near the way I've heard things described about Belfast here on the quill

Sean Bres, The leadership could not have pulled it...

2013-04-08T13:48:56.625+01:00

Sean Bres,
The leadership could not have pulled it off on their own. All those in community posts are being well paid for their great works and if there is evidence of it in Tyrone there is none in Belfast. Why would any self respecting Republican follow a corrupt leadership ?
Our own one IRA is more like the Rafia, most Republicans in Belfast have only contempt not respect for the pocket fillers in our community. So in other words I don't agree. No!

I prefer to see it how Larry called it earlier in ...

2013-04-08T12:48:39.835+01:00

I prefer to see it how Larry called it earlier in the thread, the republican leadership was bought and paid for at the top decades ago. But I'd feel it unfair to lump all the Volunteers into the same category, likewise all those who dedicated their efforts to Sinn Fein. In our communities down here such Volunteers are held in the highest esteem to this day and rightly so. No-one would ever accuse them of treachery, not even their fiercest critics. I'm sure you think the same Nuala so I'm just making the distinction before 'godti bua' decides to draws the opposite conclusion for himself.

Even a cursory reading of the facts that have emerged on the narrative of the peace process demonstrates clearly the compulsive manipulation of the army by elements at the high-end, you don't need to have been involved to realise that as it's well-documented by this stage, all you need do is read recent history. In the face of such a sustained, coordinated 'management' of the republican movement towards an already determined but concealed outcome it's difficult to blame those who were convinced that unity going forward was anything other than 'the only way' - especially in the context of the times. As Adams slowly redefined and reshaped republican strategies and objectives, leading ultimately to the situation today where former republican leaders administrate the British state and with no end of it in sight, people were continually explained to, or more accurately lied to, from what I remember from my experience as a Sinn Fein worker. The best example I can think of off-hand is Pat Doc telling us all in the Carrickmore office many moons ago that he knew two things that night for certain; one, there will never be decommissioning and two, there will never be decommissioning. We're still told there was no decommissioning sure! Similarly we were told that Patten was a no-no but it was important not to say so publicly to undermine and wrong-foot Unionism. Of course we were also told before all that no way in hell would we be going into Stormont. When I expressed dissatisfaction at the idea it looked like we were shaping up to do so I was told never, if it ever comes to pass you'll have no bother leaving because we'll all be going.

So I understand where you're coming from Nuala when you talk about people disgracing themselves but it's important to make the distinction that it's the leadership who as you say are a total disgrace and continue to be so on a worsening basis. It seems there's no low that can't be contemplated be it calling republicans traitors, working with the cop who killed Barry O'Donnell and his comrades, encouraging people to inform, going along with the idea that certain IRA operations could be classed as murders, meeting the Queen for political gain while truth and justice remain merely concepts for the families of many murdered by her army, on and on and on and like British rule in Ireland with no end in sight

godti bua, Something else, they did not have to st...

2013-04-08T10:51:24.629+01:00

godti bua,
Something else, they did not have to stand down or to get Sydney Walsh to drool on. According to Army orders they were all automatically dismissed.
What an insult coming out with that rubbish, there was only one IRA claptrap. They disgraced themselves and continue to do so every hour of every day.

Godti bua . I to must admit to having a giggle a...

2013-04-08T10:40:44.119+01:00

Godti bua . I to must admit to having a giggle at your post a cara your loyalty may get you a tufty badge ,Connolly and other violent revolutionary ones no longer pc.if the good ole RA you speak so fondly of were in existence today instead of Property management/portfolios,tours around the murals,having tea with the psni/ruc in the Conway Mill,drinks in the Rex Bar on the Shankill pilfering vast sums of money from the eec for ex pows, the list goes on but you get my drift,then a cara someone from the good ole RA would revisit the GREEN BOOK and lets face it a cara that wee book spelt out clearly the penalty for treachery,touting and mis- appropriation of weapons, I can now hear your comrades in the background shout at you to" stop digging we are already in a big enough hole"those who gave everything may use the line from the Patriot Game ..you know the one "I,m sorry my rifle has not done the same.to those quislings who sold out the Patriot Game"

Godti bua There is only one IRA and that's the...

2013-04-08T10:02:46.864+01:00

Godti bua
There is only one IRA and that's the one behind Sinn Fein.
If you weren't serious and I presume you are we could all have a good laugh at that one!
The Good old IRA that are speaking about flew in the face of IRA convention. Dumped arms, ideologically and principally sold out, thieved, lied, lined their own pockets and then asked people to turn informer. Hope they remain unique as Ireland could never afford a re-run.

Godti bua, whoever you might be, I think you'r...

2013-04-08T00:26:27.182+01:00

Godti bua, whoever you might be, I think you're trying to shoot the messenger. I agree there's only one IRA, that goes without saying - the only one I like you have ever or will ever support. But clearly things have changed in the last few years in Tyrone and are continuing to change, it's an open secret, especially in the low country and its hinterland but also in other parts of the County, east and west. Of course any such changes are unlikely to be universal, something I and others are considering at the minute, because it's obviously a situation in flux and people, even people within your party I've spoken to since Easter, aren't sure where the 'who's who' in our own part of Tyrone now stand on all the many, many issues relevant to what's going on inside republicanism locally. And this wreath thing has a lot of ordinary people wondering what exactly's going on.

I think it's disingenuous on your part to suggest what was the Tyrone IRA continue to fully back Sinn Fein's analysis given everything that's going on at the minute. The difference in Easter Sunday and Easter Monday, seemingly light years rather than 24 hours judging by how people are interpreting the respective commemorations in Carmen last weekend, suggests the polar opposite. How far these wreaths are representative of the IRA at the time of the 2005 stand-down is something only those involved can accurately state and as such is open to dispute. But it's impossible in my mind to suggest people without some sort of serious authority to lay these wreaths, deriving from their position within what was the army, would ever have went out and done so. That there were some family's still committed to Sinn Fein who weren't happy is something I've no problem in accepting, that's their entitlement without question and something I'm aware of.

But surely these wreaths are a product of an emerging dissatisfaction with where Sinn Fein has ultimately ended up; standing still for internment, ignoring the abuse going on in Maghaberry, the abandonment of any real attempt to be a party of the working class beyond subterfuge, but most hurtfully of all endorsing British policing and failing to live up to the promises made at the time of the policing decision that we would "hold these bastards to account and they won't know what's hit them". Incidents such as earlier today typify how this hasn't materialised whereby not only myself and others with me leafleting outside the Tyrone-Kerry game were subjected to vile harassment by 'Supercop' and his willing superior (you know him as well as me, the entire country must know him) but also you're own young activists I seen fly-posting car windscreens with your Irish Unity literature. But sure Jim Gibney proudly asserted his unqualified support for "our" PSNI in one of his recent 'dear leader' columns as Anthony refers to them. Therein lies the problem for so many of our people, you's have left us out to dry - IRA or no IRA.

It's hard to see it any other way and that's the analysis of a lot of people, more I think than you's seem to realise, and something the party really ought to be considering. The wrong people were backed up when Sinn Fein went along with the 'Not In My Name' crap for the sake of the Assembly election. Prospective votes took preference over a young family subjected to a most despicable campaign of abuse by "our" PSNI - likewise other local families who were good for a vote or knocking a door when others that now sit in at the meetings were on the side of the RUC not all that long ago. It's this type of thing that's not lost on people. I've said before that I hold nothing against any of you's personally but who on earth could blame people like me and an increasing number of people starting to share my feelings on it all for pulling the pin and walking away from this? Not in my name is right

'IRA units were stood down in 2005. Other grou...

2013-04-07T12:06:24.349+01:00

'IRA units were stood down in 2005. Other groups may try and claim the mantle but there is only one IRA and they are fully behind the SF leadership.'

try as i might i'm unable to make sense of that statement. Right out of the SF gobbldygook school of logic.

Sean Bresnahan said a wreath was laid in Carrickmo...

2013-04-07T01:52:08.509+01:00

Sean Bresnahan said a wreath was laid in Carrickmore from the IRA Unit in Carrickmore. This is untrue. No such wreath was laid by the IRA. IRA units were stood down in 2005. Other groups may try and claim the mantle but there is only one IRA and they are fully behind the SF leadership.

Even republicans who disagree with SF strategy were embarrassed by the wreath and its wording, especially given that one such wreath was placed on the grave of a volunteer to the disgust of the family concerned.

Sean Bres Saw that website last night and in all ...

2013-04-06T11:38:47.138+01:00

Sean Bres

Saw that website last night and in all honesty am very surprised and impressed by the numbers and banners etc in the pics. Much better organised than we were during the H-Block/Armagh beginnings in the 1980-81 era. Also the generation spread of those involved was good to see.

I had no idea things were moving the way they are. Must be 'coz the media here are exactly what they tell us N. Korean media is like....khantz!!

Looking forward to May 1st with a bit more positivity and vigour now. Cheers for that.

Hope this helps chara - http://www.1916societies.c...

2013-04-05T22:09:24.582+01:00

Hope this helps chara - http://www.1916societies.com/

Sean Bres what is the website/page?

2013-04-05T21:45:02.261+01:00

Sean Bres

what is the website/page?

'big bang' moment i meant obviously.

2013-04-05T21:31:20.386+01:00

'big bang' moment i meant obviously.

Mackers Exactly. The 50s border campaign was a to...

2013-04-05T20:08:47.029+01:00

Mackers

Exactly. The 50s border campaign was a total failure 'coz the welfare state, standard of living post WW2 in the north made the border issue irrelevant to most peoples lives. Goulding + co. were actually angry with the people for the lack of support.

But when the civil righters hit them with discrimination, housing issues etc...bingo! Different altogether. That was relevant to everyone. Sticks were right, but underestimated the brits addiction for putting the boot into the natives. Hence the provos after bloody sunday internment etc.

What republicans are doing at present is attempting to go straight to what you termed the 'big-band' moment. Cart before the horse.

A long haul of promoting a border poll in the future might condition people regarding the merits of one. (RCs are now level in number in the wee 6) It's necessary to prove that the issue should be addressed at a future date. Not just morally but in factual terms. Maskey stating it makes sense on tv was the most pathetic performance i ever saw. Arlene Foster merely had to keep silent, he embarrassed himself. AND ME.

Forget the obsession with SF, they are a brit party. Bought and paid for at the top decades ago. Get a relevant issue and start the long haul process. A study of the SNP and studying the merits of unity would do no harm. How can we convince others if we don't set out to prove the merits of it to ourselves first. GET THE FACTS RIGHT and watch SF squirm.

Larry if that's your cup of tae you should ser...

2013-04-05T19:57:31.403+01:00

Larry if that's your cup of tae you should seriously consider the 1916 Societies who are organising on the basis that all of the Irish people are entitled to a single democratic referendum on the issue of Irish unity. One question, one constituency, one result...

'One Ireland! One Vote!'

There are of course other aspects to what the Societies are about, chief among them the purpose of giving people the space required for education, discussion and debate. We hope that young people such as yourself going forward can be comfortable in tying in with this emergent movement. You're more than welcome to join us!

As regards emulating the Provo's it's not about that, though of course we take pride in the efforts of the Irish Republican Army, its Volunteers and its martyred dead - OUR martyred dead. And when I say ours I mean yours, mine and all the people of this country. They are not 'owned' by anyone because they died for us all. We seek only to remember those who paid the ultimate sacrifice in a non party-political, respectful manner and in conjunction with their loved ones.

Ultimately what I believe the Societies are capable of delivering is an independent, relevant, confident republicanism in tune with the modern needs of Irish society yet consistent with our long struggle for freedom, justice and peace. I feel we can strike the balance between what has gone before and where we need to be heading to achieve our goals. And I believe we can attract people to our analysis, our strategy and our movement as we progress. Have a look at our web-page sure, it'll do no harm!

As regards the Brendan Lecture I'd imagine there'll be no admission, tae and sandwiches maybe if you're lucky! And yeah it'd be great to see you there too

On Larry's point I remember talking to a forme...

2013-04-05T18:45:56.787+01:00

On Larry's point I remember talking to a former hunger striker around the time of the 2007 Northern election and the decision to stand the mother of Patsy O'Hara. He made the point that the strategic problem posed by that is that it reminds people of the hunger strike era and while they held the hunger strikers in high regard they did not want to go back to that type of era. He felt they would vote SF as a result; not because SF were republican but because the party would guarantee the imperfect peace. I think it might be the same with prison protests.

Sean Bres The word republican is a turn-off to ma...

2013-04-05T18:20:37.916+01:00

Sean Bres

The word republican is a turn-off to many people from the get-go. Maybe a strategy focused on a single issue with a principled focus might garner a growing support base in time. Kind of like apeing the civil rights only try and build up a head of steam on the 'border poll' issue or something new and interesting.

Dont mean to be offensive in my point making, but when you mention republicanism and jail protests at the present time just after 30 yrs of it people find it a megga no-no. Republicanism is ancient and jail protest is needless trouble.

Add to that the likes of SF stance (lack of) on the issue of jails and people see through the futility of it. I'm not interested in a wasted decade trying to emulate the provos. God forbid! If there was a relevant issue being promoted people might get behind it. But flogging dead horses isn't anyones idea of a good day out. Just saying like.

I too am looking forward to May 1st. I hope it will be a good evening and interesting. I've a lecture though and it's getting close to exams, so it could be difficult to leave the lecture early. Is there a cover charge/entry fee? Students free, extremely (im)mature students provoded with tae and sannies?

That comment was for another thread and posted by ...

2013-04-05T18:09:13.566+01:00

That comment was for another thread and posted by mistake if you want to delete it from the 'impotent' discussion, sorry bout that Anthony

I agree with Anthony's analysis, Sinn Fein are...

2013-04-05T16:56:43.234+01:00

I agree with Anthony's analysis, Sinn Fein are no longer a republican party - at least no more than the like of Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael or even the SDLP. In terms of the national question they are basically all a mirror image of the other, separated by degrees rather than clear blue water. The defining characteristics of Sinn Fein republicanism are now more in sync with Mansergh and Hume than Connolly or Pearse. But that doesn't preclude the fact that many Sinn Fein members and activists should rightly be considered as republicans. Plenty remain onboard because of long-held loyalties - both to personalities at a local level and to the wider organisation itself. Also when the IRA was 'disbanded', at the time of the Seanna Walsh read statement, it's leadership asked people to turn their energies to Sinn Fein. For many republicans it's hard to walk away as a result, though of course the numbers doing so are increasing all the time as the logic of where it's ended up inexorably bears down on us and them. We must convince others that the time is right to begin charting another course alongside those of us already gone. Such are the people we should seek unity with and of course among ourselves - not the likes of Declan Kearney or his ilk. Their failed leadership should not be entertained in the slightest.

It's incumbent on us, as we've been discussing the last few days, to give people some form of credible republican alternative they can give allegiance to, obviously this should be based on republican principles first and foremost. The only place I can see this worth starting from is Anthony's assertion yesterday in another thread that a disassociation from administering British rule has to be the bottom line. Everything after that should be on the table for discussion and debate whether it fits our own ideological position or not. It's only through having such a discussion that any notion of a united republican movement can be anything more than that, a grand notion in our heads but something beyond the practicalities of overcoming the numerous side-issues that divide us. I feel some form of unity is definitely on the agenda, the conversations of the last few days are very encouraging. I just hope the ball is rolling and things start to gather pace. Roll on the Brendan Hughes Memorial Lecture, as many of us as possible should be there to further just such a process

In addition to my last post, i suggest a purely po...

2013-04-04T18:17:48.887+01:00

In addition to my last post, i suggest a purely political agenda with a backbone is the answer. As mackers points out, if there are no secrets there's nothing, and no-one, to be sold.

SNP would be a better model than the one the provos opted for, the SDLP.

fenian Not a bit cynical! I used to suspect loyal...

2013-04-04T17:34:57.894+01:00

fenian

Not a bit cynical! I used to suspect loyalists of operating in a scenario of whos handler had the highest authority trumped the competition. Without doubt the provos were no different as we can now see. COMICAL. Disso's i suspect are the remnants of that infestation now attempting to drain the gravy train of the very last trickle. Those that aren't engaged in that activity i suspect are in jail or undermined beyond repair.

There's little evidence the dirty-war has gotten any cleaner.