Comments on The Pensive Quill: Manners - A Long Time Coming

Larry, ‘Would Bradford be permitted through a vot...

2012-09-06T22:19:24.785+01:00

Larry,

‘Would Bradford be permitted through a vote to be a part of Pakistan?’

At some point in the future with the breakdown of nation states and the formation of new political frameworks, this type of thing might not seem as far-fetched as it does today. Nations are historical products and not timeless entities. They came into being and will undoubtedly go out of it. But I wonder about the room for dissenting from nationalism and the forms that it can take. I tend to see isms much like religions. There is always a danger in making them obligatory. At the same time at the level of political organisation in today’s world it is difficult to see how your question could be answered in the affirmative.

Larry, how about a piece for TPQ on that issue?

2012-09-04T20:59:36.614+01:00

Larry,

how about a piece for TPQ on that issue?

Having said that the Japanese executed over 150,00...

2012-09-04T20:32:08.811+01:00

Having said that the Japanese executed over 150,000 Chinese when the invaded Burma and Malaysia. But that was probably a wee accident.

talking of investigations...i see the London court...

2012-09-04T19:48:42.277+01:00

talking of investigations...i see the London courts refused Malasian people an inquiry into the murder by Scots guards there in 1948. The judge ruled after all this time it would be impossible to ascertain if the killings were deliberate. 24 men were executed and it is accepted they were not insurgents. How many years ago is that? 64? I really believe the Bloody Sunday enquiry was McGuinness' 'reward'.

Families of victims of the Ballymurphy massacre where 11 unarmed civilians were shot dead by British Army call for a independent investigati...

Given the events of the last couple of days and ni...

2012-09-04T13:13:34.312+01:00

Given the events of the last couple of days and nights and all that has been since said respect of it, would it be an overstatement to say we are witnessing the Orange Card being played once again in an attempt by that organisation/loyalists/loyalism to come together to at least have the parades commission removed?

Or could it be that the Orange Order is letting us know the Orange State is still in existence (contrary to what SF would have us believe)and the OO is publicly rejecting (and thus humiliating SF) attempts by the SF Chav's to woo them by love bombing?

Dixie, Michael, shinners like yourself think...

2012-09-03T21:56:48.446+01:00
Dixie,

Michael, shinners like yourself think elections and getting votes is some kind of progress which is balls.

I remember Morrison writing that if SF took every nationalist vote in the North and won a majority of seats in the South it still would not shift the Brits; only armed struggle would do that. Armed struggle was never going to do it which leaves us looking at the likelihood that there is no republican strategy for getting rid of the Brits; just the same Brit terms that have been on offer since Sunningdale – unity approved by a majority in the North.

Did I just bang my head off a brick wall in the last post?
Probably, unfortunately

mackers 'An interesting point but does it all...

2012-09-02T15:44:56.873+01:00
mackers

'An interesting point but does it allow for a right to dissent from the nation?'

Isn't that what it was/is all about? A self interest group which not only refuses to be part of the nation but exists to keep a portion of national territory apart. Would Bradford be permitted through a vote to be a part of Pakistan?

Michaelhenry ‘Sinn Fein never had any weapons .....

2012-09-02T10:55:34.126+01:00
Michaelhenry

‘Sinn Fein never had any weapons ...’

But any historian of the conflict knows the dominant element in the SF leadership ran the IRA. The Movement was one joined in a strategic nexus where those who wanted an IRA-free future decided the strategy including the decommissioning aspect whcih Danny Morrison argued equates with an IRA surrender.

Larry,

‘They know deep down though unionism will never accept the democratic process when it doesn't favour them. Otherwise the nation would never have been divided in the first place.’

An interesting point but does it allow for a right to dissent from the nation? And if it does not we are left with obligatory nationalism? And that leads to armed republicans shouting no dissent from the nation.

There is more points of convergence between SF and the Stick politics than divergence. The one thing that can be said about the Sticks is that many of their membership had a strong social conscience.

John Great post, kind of boots michaelhenry over ...

2012-09-02T00:18:00.613+01:00
John

Great post, kind of boots michaelhenry over the bar for a point. Over and out. Wee prods are having a great laugh at SF, even the delinquent bigots.

MH, I see your loyalist friends don't recipro...

2012-09-01T22:13:19.570+01:00
MH,

I see your loyalist friends don't reciprocate the love:

"Bands are currently top of the news agenda in Northern Ireland. Recent events have drawn focus to Ulster Bands, and the media have been pursuing every possible avenue to maintain these headlines. In doing so they have resorted to sensationalising many aspects of band culture, practises and history to fulfil their need to obtain controversy and divide the Unionist community.
In the latest 'discovery', Castlederg Young Loyalists Flute Band are the victims of the media campaign. Attempts have been made to create a link between Pat Docherty of Sinn Fein and the Band, by virtue that he allegedly supported a grant applicant. Castlederg Young Loyalists would like to make it totally clear that at no time did they seek the endorsement or help of Docherty or Sinn Fein. The band had enlisted the help of a local community group to assist with the funding application, and unknown to the band they had sent general communications to a wide range of figures and groups, which included Docherty.
It is to the bands immense suprise, in fact shock, that an endorsement was made from that individual.
Castlederg Young Loyalists Flute are a totally unashamed Loyalist Flute Band. The band has made considerable efforts over the past decade to promote that Loyalism and their cultural heritage, and will continue to do so. Four band members were murdered by the IRA, and Castlederg Young Loyalists have not and never will forget this reality. The band harbours nothing but contempt for Irish Republicanism and its attacks on their community.
We do not thank Docherty for the endorsement. The band is a legitimate part of the local community, is proud of its heritage and culture, and believes itself to be fully deserving in its own right of any grant award we receive. We have never compromised our principles on grant forms, on the streets of Ulster, or anywhere else. We are what we are and all we ask is for respect. That is all the entire band movement wants and deserves."

John 'don't think for one second that the...

2012-09-01T08:08:38.696+01:00
John

'don't think for one second that the vast majority of people who are still with PSF have the slightest interest in the National question. They are only in it because they have been bought off and want to get what they can before the party is over.'

Actually agree with that. The new gang all jumped aboard once it was safe and trendy to be associated. Maybe that's why the SF mayor in Derry was so worried about the house raid, 90% of the wee oportunists would have been gone overnight. Can't have the peelers at the door!! The girl i mentioned previously crowing about her mums friendship with Seanna Walsh was plastering photos of herself at the SF ard dheis with McGuinness. My oh my how the 'mighty' have fallen. I'm thrilled to see the residents and bandsmen negotiating about parades without taking the SF position. Maybe the penny is finally dropping.

Larry, 'SF and it's more recent recruits ...

2012-08-31T22:28:50.418+01:00
Larry,

'SF and it's more recent recruits have deluded themselves that they are on the road, via demographics and endlessly conciliating the unionists, to a united Ireland.'

I don't think for one second that the vast majority of people who are still with PSF have the slightest interest in the National question. They are only in it because they have been bought off and want to get what they can before the party is over.

Michaelhenry, Sam Miller might be a lot things th...

2012-08-31T21:49:47.296+01:00
Michaelhenry,

Sam Miller might be a lot things that you do not approve of. But coward is not amongst them.

michaelhenry, Never mind the Orange mobs you lot ...

2012-08-31T21:40:25.750+01:00
michaelhenry,
Never mind the Orange mobs you lot are quite on board with the Orange mobs.
I watched Sinn Fein in Ardoyne and they did not seem too pre-occupied with what Orange mobs were doing to the Ardoyne people.
I did not think you would care too much about Fr Murray, did you not call him a coward on another site?

John McGirr- " It is your party that has dis...

2012-08-31T20:34:05.373+01:00
John McGirr-

" It is your party that has disarmed and surrendered "

Sinn Fein never had any weapons so i dont know how they disarmed or surrendered any-

" the Republican/nationalist people are being left defenceless "

I thought there was a good half dozen hardline groups that you support-what are they doing,hiding-

Fionnuala-

" I can look into anyone's eyes michaelhenry can you look into Father Murrays? "

Dont know of any reason why i could not- yet you support Sam Millar who wants the Loyalists mobs to burn Father Murrary- all the x prisoners-anyone that stood up-those who were central to the armed defence of your area- and yet you can still look into the eyes of all those people-

john SF and it's more recent recruits have del...

2012-08-31T19:44:01.916+01:00
john
SF and it's more recent recruits have deluded themselves that they are on the road, via demographics and endlessly conciliating the unionists, to a united Ireland. They know deep down though unionism will never accept the democratic process when it doesn't favour them. Otherwise the nation would never have been divided in the first place. The difference between SF and the sticks is SF have the elusion of political power. The sticks stuck to their politics and got nowhere, the provos sold everthing and everyone for council jobs that they were entitled to anyway. The republicans should not be seeking SF support they should be much more agressive in their denunciation of them. Not easy though with the media and journalist all in cahoots on the 'piss-process'.

michaelhenry, I live in an area that was one of th...

2012-08-31T14:47:31.483+01:00
michaelhenry,
I live in an area that was one of the first under siege in Belfast.
I live in a street where the orange/loyalist mobs came up to burn Clonard Church.
Worse still, I remember standing petrified and clinging to my da's hand watching the B Specials and RUC help the so called loyalists unload their arsenal in Cupar ST.
The only people who came to our aid were the IRA.
Men young and old. Some from former campaigns 40s/50s and some 60s recruits.
For your information. None of the IRA who were central to the armed defence of this area align themselves with Sinn Fein.
Sadly some of them have lived long enough to watch the Sinn Fein/Orange spectacle which is rolled out every July under the guise of cultural respect.
I can look into anyone's eyes michaelhenry can you look into Father Murrays?

MH, Should it come to that, it is your party that...

2012-08-31T13:52:17.897+01:00
MH,

Should it come to that, it is your party that has disarmed and surrendered. Sam is making a valid, if rhetorical point, that the Republican/Nationalist people are being left defenceless. (At least that is how I read it).

Meanwhile your party will be doling out money to any and every orange misfit and loyalist band!

Fionnuala- Sam Miller wants/hopes that the Loyali...

2012-08-31T13:28:56.476+01:00
Fionnuala-

Sam Miller wants/hopes that the Loyalists mobs burn us all- you cant miss this-it is the first post here- i will
call him a coward forever and a day for saying that whilst you support him- how him or you can look into your neighbours children's eyes is beyond me- yous have flipped this time-

I have criticised SF and the dissidents on this si...

2012-08-31T11:21:03.806+01:00
I have criticised SF and the dissidents on this site none-stop. My beef with the dissidents is their ineffectiveness and constant attepmts to get SF support. Seems daft to me. But the more this 'piss-process' drags out the more it is obvious to a blind man on a galloping horse that SF are the dissident republicans and I dare say the type of people in its ranks now ie Michaelhenry are devoid of any real personal knowledge or grounding in the 30 yr war. A SF member in University of Ulster bragged about her mum being best friends with Seana Walsh then told people '9-11 and all the killings here were 'murder' plain and simple'. If SF disbanded tomorrow Michaelhenry would have to find a new reason to get out of bed each morning. [a new hobby] Michaelhenry, get yourself a wee pet dog, you'll look less daft.

The loyalists were planted here to deny the Irish rights and preserve a British hold on the country. Same as the Jews were settled in Palestine by the yanks and the Brits. The Loyalists Michaelhenry are not confused about who they are or what their role is here. Giving them money to parade, or agreeing to it, and then complaining about their coat trailing is simply SF in a nutshell. [forty faced]Do you think the Loyalists are closer to being 'Irish'? Not in a million years. The only people living in lala land is you and SF michaelhenry.

michaelhenry, You are seemingly very fond of apply...

2012-08-31T10:01:56.441+01:00
michaelhenry,
You are seemingly very fond of applying the term coward these days.
But then, you just apply it, you don't bother explaining why or how the particular person is a coward.
At least when Robert called you, 'The Villiage Idiot' he spelt out clearly why and how you were an idiot and I assume at the time we all agreed with him, because I do not remember any contradictory posts.
Sam Millar is not a coward and neither is Father Murray (re-you statement via another blog)
Seriously curious as to how you will back this up?

If you want to witness cowards in action, why don't you come up to the Springfield Road and watch how Sinn Fein manufacture a residents protest against Orange parades.
How they stand with the PSNI and ensure that the residents or no else steps out of line.
You are in the wrong party to be making these ridiculous assertions and you know it.

Dixie 25% of qsf members are on medication for men...

2012-08-31T09:37:16.241+01:00
Dixie 25% of qsf members are on medication for mental illness,thats scary as hell it means 75% are not medicated Mickeyboy c,mere...

Did I just bang my head off a brick wall in the la...

2012-08-31T00:52:18.580+01:00
Did I just bang my head off a brick wall in the last post?

Silly response Michaelhenry. The SDLP brought th...

2012-08-31T00:51:07.516+01:00
Silly response Michaelhenry.

The SDLP brought thousands to the polling booths back then and after.

In fact Gerry Fitt was Deputy Chief Executive to Brian Faulkners Chief Executive back in the 1973 Assembley - That was Sunningdale later reworded as the GFA.

In case it doesn't register...Deputy First Minister today = Marty.

Deputy Chief Executive in 1973 = Gerry Fitt.

You see Michael, shinners like yourself think elections and getting votes is some kind of progress which is balls. The fecking Stoops were doing what Adams and company are doing today awayyyyy back in the 1970s when flares and the Bay City Rollers were all the go.

They had what the Shinners have today without spilling one drop of blood - without one IRA volunteer loosing their lives - and Michaelhenry not one person spent a day in prison following the Stoops.

Fecking elections!!...the polling cards of the so called Peace Processors are covered in blood...