Comments on The Pensive Quill: No Sufficiency of Inquiry

Anthony: "But how could that be achieved wit...

2013-01-02T23:33:33.356Z

Anthony:

"But how could that be achieved without charging people from all past hues with murder? ".

have they ("The British") not already done that, and continue to do until this very day, Why should Republicans be charged with things which happened in pre GFA, which stipulated they could not be.
I have already stated that those British State forces who are known to have committed Murder of innocent catholics will never face trial, nor , any public inquiry, They have immunity from their own govenment. Now, as you state if it came to fruit and they were arrested and charged does not mean Republicans would be arrested and charged as well, just look at how many loyalist British agents went to court and they all got off scot free, ask yourself this question, "Why doesn't the British Government Finally admit that all those who were murdered, were murdered unlawfully by British Security Forces" , They done it for Bloody Sunday, Partially for The Finucane family, and its not just The Ballymurphy and Newlodge Massacres there are many many more ,Loughall and Death on the Rock to mention a few The old way of MI5 thinking is, "Let them rant on, eventually they will die off", If we were to forget all those assassinations by the SAS, the manipulation of Bombs prior to planting for Premature detonation by agents handlers comes into the same category , "MURDER".
I have just been looking at documents which I downloaded Re the Ludlow Murder, now you probably know about this because ED reported on it, and according to the Inquiry he gave information in his report which was deemed to be false (untrue), Yet all the false information put out by MI5 and the secret meetings of British Government Ministers is deemed to be the truth, but has been found out to be lies due to the 30 year rule and the FOI, Did you know that the GOC of NI ask that adams should be arrested, he was advised against this by the men in suits, now thats food for thought.
But as I said, The arrest and prosecution of British secerity force who carried ALL MURDERS both here and abroad will never be charged or face a court of law.

Itsjustmacker, There is nothing more in this w...

2013-01-02T19:15:23.141Z
Itsjustmacker,

There is nothing more in this whole world which would please me more to see British Soldiers/RUC/MI5 being charged with Murder.

But how could that be achieved without charging people from all past hues with murder?

I think the time has long past for a new approach that is not based on giving the state the lead through prosecutions.

Although as you say it is never going to happen.

I think there is widespread acceptance that there was a shoot to kill policy. I would not like to se that rowed back through prosecutions that will lead to political verdicts

Anthony: There is nothing more in this whole worl...

2013-01-02T13:13:26.795Z
Anthony:

There is nothing more in this whole world which would please me more to see British Soldiers/RUC/MI5 being charged with Murder.

But, You , I , and , Others know this is not going to happen, everything has been covered up, "Lost Documents", failing to "interview witness's", we all know it was a straight "SHOOT TO KILL POLICY", everything is now being listed as, "Documents can not be shewn due to national security", which in our eyes means, "Do you think for one minute we would let republicans see documents which would incriminate our security forces", and, that's the bottom line in a nutshell.

Itsjustmacker, Give these families what they a...

2013-01-01T19:04:52.367Z
Itsjustmacker,

Give these families what they are legally entitled to.

The families are morally entitled to a verdict of murder against the British. Legally they are entitled to have the soldiers tried which also means those accused are entitled to a legal defence rather than an arbitrary verdict. The outcome of the trial would in my view be at best manslaughter – and the Brit establishment once again off the hook. Prosecutions in my view are obfuscating the past rather than clarifying it.

I don’t think at this point we are going to get the British state to fess up to what you state is necessary for justice. I think we need some mechanism which creates a widespread view that they are guilty whether they fess up or not. I think this has already happened in the Bloody Sunday case. One problem facing any campaign for justice is that with the current SF leadership backing such campaigns the Brits are more able to deflect the criticism. If the current leaders move on SF will be in a better position to make the case and not be dismissed so easily.

I think the more those campaigning for the Ballymurphy dead or the New Lodge Road Six dead maintain the public discourse the easier it will be to have the Brits viewed culpable. Ultimately I think the grubby facts that the Brits don’t want out there will be uncovered not by tribunals or courts but by historians, academics and investigative journalists doing the digging. Yes, their findings will be disputed but I doubt that will invalidate them. People sense instinctively that the Brits were up to their necks in nefarious activity. Their fingerprints are left at too many ‘crime scenes’ for any innocent explanation to be possible.

Marty,

Phil has done a great job in making the case against the most heinous state abuses. So when he mentions the abuses that we have carried out on our side he needs to be listened to every bit as much.

Anthony: Have I not stated that in my post, about...

2012-12-31T17:10:20.086Z
Anthony:

Have I not stated that in my post, about the truth?.

I know it was a massacre, what I was stating, "They knew the truth, now they want justice", and the only way they and others will get justice is , (1) Postmortem's on those murdered.

(2) For the British to admit this was blatant murder and they are the cause of all those murders by crown forces by giving them a free hand, ie , Safe from prosecution.

" I would be loath to allow them to get off the hook in a court room which will restrict matters to individual actions of troops on the day and absolve the Brit state of any systemic responsibility."

They have already done that by giving there own soldiers orders to go and defeat the PIRA by all means possible, "you will be immune to prosecution", so in those soldiers eyes, every catholic was in the PIRA and they could shoot whoever they wanted, now that they know everyone shot on that day in the murph was unarmed, they, "The British", don't have a leg to stand on as the FOI 30 year rule showed that secret document, which boiled down to, "Shoot to Kill", I have downloaded all those documents.

May I take this opportunity to wish yourself, your Good Lady and children a Happy and prosperous new year, also all on the TPQ.

Itsjustmacker, The campaigners for the Ballymurph...

2012-12-31T14:29:20.277Z
Itsjustmacker,

The campaigners for the Ballymurphy victims don’t need truth, they already know it. The people were gunned down in a state massacre. What they seem to want is an acknowledgement by the Brits or forced from them that it was such. I think where all this is leading as seems clear from the Bloody Sunday case is that the Brits through prosecutions will have a verdict of manslaughter delivered and then what we will have pronounced to the world is ‘Britain not guilty of murder’ – much the same as they played the torture issue back in 77 after the European Court found against them on ill treatment.

As it stands people know Bloody Sunday was a massacre and that knowledge should not be squandered in the mire of prosecutions. A legal verdict should not be encouraged to emerge as a foil against the common sense verdict. I think the same applies in the Murph. This is the benefit of Saville. It established a template from which we can read off British state activity in Ireland. I would be loath to allow them to get off the hook in a court room which will restrict matters to individual actions of troops on the day and absolve the Brit state of any systemic responsibility.

siobhan: We all seek Justice for everyone, Past a...

2012-12-22T23:53:28.383Z
siobhan:

We all seek Justice for everyone, Past and present, and I know the families will never give up, no one could at wanton murder by a British murdering gang of hooligans who seemed to think they were invincible because they were in the SO CALLED, elite Regiment, the major problem is getting past the MI5 security hurdle, they will be looking for all those soldiers who are alive and briefing them, they will probably state, "POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER" , Its not so long ago I was involved to stop Poll Brennan being returned to Ireland, It is common fact that the British were no longer seeking his return, But Low and Behold, Condoleezza Rice's last official act was to have him deported, she never ask if the British still wanted him. Don't think for one moment that we have all forgotten about what happened in Ballymurphy and all the other shoot to kills, I for one haven't. I wish you and all the families seeking the truth and get those murdering scum before the courts, if not, a firing squad.

In reply to larry hughes.... it is nice that you a...

2012-12-22T19:07:17.656Z
In reply to larry hughes.... it is nice that you are being so dismissive of the families fight for justice i would like to say to you and everyone else who shares the same negative thoughts as you... that the families WILL NOT give up for the TRUTH and JUSTICE for ballymurphy massacre.

Brits wont spend another 'zillion quid' on...

2012-12-08T15:10:40.971Z
Brits wont spend another 'zillion quid' on an enquiry. McGuinness got his pay-off in Derry the show is over. There are people in Malaya still waiting an enquiry after sixty-four years. Maybe the relatives should compare notes?

How can a senior coroner over rule an attorney Gen...

2012-12-07T22:57:02.520Z
How can a senior coroner over rule an attorney General, It should be the other way about, this stinks of special branch/MI5/MI6 sticking there noses in again, It wouldn't surprise me if "A SECRET EVIDENCE TAG" would be placed on these MURDERS.

In an Interview John Leckey was asked.

What part of your job gives you the most satisfaction?

His answer was;
Holding an inquest and getting positive feedback from a family that they regard the investigation as having been thorough. Providing answers to questions that have been troubling a bereaved family may assist the grieving process and help to bring some measure of closure.

Well Mr Leckey, now you can give closure to these and other families who require legitimate answers as, (Not to how there loved ones died) they know this, But forensic evidence is required as to how many times were they shot, how close was the murdering soldier's who fired the fatal shots, Its common knowledge that they were all unarmed, but the soldiers were given a green card, "GO OUT AND DEFEAT THE IRA",shoot to kill policy, but Those innocent victims were not in the IRA and Mr Leckey knows this, He has taken an oath and should stick to it within the law and not listen to British Intelligence. Give these families what they are legally entitled to.

Prof Phil Scraton has been to the forefront in hig...

2012-12-07T21:50:48.527Z
Prof Phil Scraton has been to the forefront in highlighting injustices here and in England a rare breed of professional person who is prepared to stand up to the state and its malpractices,he demolished that bigot Morrow on the Wendy Austin radio show in relation to the continuing internment and treatment of Marian Price, a good man glad he,s on the side of truth and justice ,my problem with state killings is if the state says its agents carried out the killings no matter what the circumstances or by what agency then the state should have no where in law to hide they are either justified or they are not there should be no ambiguity,unless of course those agents are acting under orders from the state then the whole unwillingness to have proper due process becomes understandable,then can anyone really blame those would would pull down such a state ...

Comments on The Pensive Quill: No Sufficiency of Inquiry

Anthony: "But how could that be achieved wit...

Itsjustmacker, There is nothing more in this w...

Anthony: There is nothing more in this whole worl...

Itsjustmacker, Give these families what they a...

Anthony: Have I not stated that in my post, about...

Itsjustmacker, The campaigners for the Ballymurph...

siobhan: We all seek Justice for everyone, Past a...

In reply to larry hughes.... it is nice that you a...

Brits wont spend another 'zillion quid' on...

How can a senior coroner over rule an attorney Gen...

Prof Phil Scraton has been to the forefront in hig...