Comments on The Pensive Quill: 'Britain’s New FBI'

Niall, I have not suggested that atheism is super...

2013-03-08T14:23:19.684Z

Niall,

I have not suggested that atheism is superior morally. Atheism is just a disbelief in any god. My point is that Christianity can not lay claim to any moral status that would elevate it above atheism. A more focused point I would make is that people do not need to believe in a god to behave justly. Atheists can be as moral as anybody else, sometimes more so and sometimes less so. They are not morally disadvantaged by being atheistic.

Sinn Fein's actions today call into serious question the legitimacy of the IRA campaign to force the Brits out of Ireland and coerce the unionists into a united Ireland. SF defend the consent principle the IRA killed many combatants for defending. It has greater difficulty undermining the legitimacy of IRA actions that were simply the outworking of popular grievance inspired insurrection. I think this is why SF try to redefine the struggle as one of equality: it is easier for it to stand over armed actions that were strategic rather than traditional.

The actions of the 'glorious past republican icons' invite the perspective of the present to very much write the past. I am sure there are people who have concluded that the many of the past republicans had they survived would do this sort of thing.

Is it ever morally correct to kill someone? I would try not to phrase it that way. But your question is no less valid for that. I can think of many circumstances where it would not be morally wrong. And the difference then seems paper thin. I think the second position Niall probably contains within it a reluctance towards killing people where the language of it being morally correct to kill people seems to be more positive towards it and therefore opens up a worrying vista.

But I don't have the answers that would satisfy me thoroughly much less persuade anybody else. I think about the questions more than I come up with the answers.

AM, Not my intention to suggest anything of the s...

2013-03-08T12:07:12.773Z

AM,

Not my intention to suggest anything of the sort….God forbid ……sorry, sorry, wrong term! In turn, you also suggest that atheism is more morally correct…..don’t know about that as there have been just as many immoral atheists as there have been immoral Christians…. Mmmmm, not too sure about atheism being the moral king of the castle….. but Christianity certainly isn’t either.
Aggravated crime wave….certainly SF/MI5’s actions today in acceptance of the legitimacy of Britain’s presence would imply such for that in turn reduces all political past actions to actions within a generally accepted civil society which is tantamount to terrorism and criminality…..and actually the behaviour of some of our glorious past Republican icons especially those recently in the public eye such as that pompous narcissist McFeeley adds weight to the argument. But can we condemn the actions of those today and justify our own past actions…….if it’s never morally correct to take a life then would all wars not be demoted to criminality.

Anthony in relation to your last comment a cara &q...

2013-03-07T15:06:40.021Z

Anthony in relation to your last comment a cara "for me to look at it that way would be to drain a violent political conflict of its politics and in its place put an explanation that would amount to an aggravated crime wave" exactly what quisling $inn £ein have done are are doing with the current conflict.

Niall, that suggests that Christianity may be mor...

2013-03-07T14:34:18.539Z

Niall,

that suggests that Christianity may be more moral than atheism, not a view I would subscribe to.

No, given my own views, it would not put me in that category. For me to look at it that way would be to drain a violent political conflict of its politics and in its place put an explanation that would amount to an aggravated crime wave.

AM, It would seem that you have inadvertently beco...

2013-03-07T13:36:54.844Z

AM,
It would seem that you have inadvertently become a better Christian than an atheist these days although that rule below was written for the Hebrews and it could be argued that it is non-applicable to, blah, blah, blah. Just curious, does your reasoning, and I’m not being facetious, make you a double murderer and nothing more?
“Thou shall not Kill” – and just below in ever so small and just about discernible print and which Moses failed to mention – THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS, PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fionnuala,
Murphy et al (his elk - I thought it was a black taxi they used!) were by no means psychotic...this was an excuse used by the British to cover the fact that these people committed such hate driven barbarous and brutal murders, that British Unionism culture couldn't be seen to have created them....they were the product of a culture of pure hate and in turn allowed to vent that hatred by the British security forces to scare the Nationalist community in to submission….the RUC knew from the very beginning who they were as the whole of the Shankill Road did…the emergence of a surviving witness was the spanner in the works…..Murphy et al were no psychopaths – an establishment excuse to excuse a brutal and vulgar culture spawned and nurtured by Britain.

Anthony/Itsjustmackers; 'Former IRA leader co...

2013-03-06T20:45:55.009Z

Anthony/Itsjustmackers;

'Former IRA leader continues to deny being in the IRA'

He's consistent. Ill give him that!

Poor Gerry Adams TD, He will go down in the annuls...

2013-03-06T15:36:40.553Z

Poor Gerry Adams TD, He will go down in the annuls of history as being a Habitual Liar. It beggars belief how he continually denies , Not Just Being In The RA, but being an OC, The British Know, there are those of us who know, so the main question is, "IS HE BEING PROTECTED" , he worked a flanker by standing in a safe seat in the Dail, He has washed his hands of the North.

Former IRA leader continues to deny being in the IRA

I'm not claiming that and it would not bother ...

2013-03-06T09:06:01.151Z

I'm not claiming that and it would not bother me if I was so by all means let it pass!

Nuala, without anything substantive backing you c...

2013-03-06T08:03:40.429Z

Nuala,

without anything substantive backing you claim that you are thought less of than others who post we can only let it pass.

Itsjustmacker,

nobody will be charged with war crimes because officialy and legally inscribed across the charge street would be the imprimatur of war. The Brits will never do that.

I think it would be incredibly difficult to charge...

2013-03-06T05:13:13.773Z

I think it would be incredibly difficult to charge anyone as a war criminal during the troubles, as it was never acknowledged as a war by anyone other than the Republican soldiers fighting it. For a very long time, Reinhard Heydrich operated under the cover of a legitimately elected government that went on to occupy other territories, including Bohemia and Moravia, where Heydrich was finally assassinated. Even the Geneva Conventions do not provide the protection of prisoner of war status to freedom fighters whose countries have been invaded (as the north of Ireland was by Britain).

I am in no doubt that, If they were alive (Shankil...

2013-03-06T01:12:28.435Z

I am in no doubt that, If they were alive (Shankill Butchers) today They could be charged as war criminals, It makes no difference if they were deluded sectarian psychopath murderers.

I thought it was obvious even if neither here or t...

2013-03-05T23:13:10.070Z

I thought it was obvious even if neither here or there!
I was making the point that I never stooped that low but those who did seem the better thought of, again neither here or there.

Nuala, you seem to be defending yourself against...

2013-03-05T22:08:59.710Z

Nuala,

you seem to be defending yourself against claims that nobody has made - certainly not on this blog that I can recall.

Nobody has said you enlist pseudonyms to rally around you.

Nobody has said you think something but go along with something else.

So I don't really know what you are talking about.

Mackers, What opinions I have I air them under my ...

2013-03-05T22:04:36.705Z

Mackers,
What opinions I have I air them under my own name and I don't enlist pseudonyms to rally round me.
People who know me well and read into those posts agree with me , as a matter of fact some pointed it out before I seen it.
That's in another memory now but I won't go along with something and think something else, there's a name for that.

Nuala, I didn't agree with you then and don&#...

2013-03-05T21:22:55.326Z

Nuala,

I didn't agree with you then and don't agree with you now. Differences of opinion are just that: differences. Different opinions only become a problem when we are not allowed to air them

Mackers, I made a perfectly valid point a few week...

2013-03-05T21:17:29.625Z

Mackers,
I made a perfectly valid point a few weeks ago and it seemed as if spirits were being conjured up to respond can of worms being an understatement but you take it on the chin.
I did not like the underlying connotations it made me feel uneasy, other people found it hilarious. If I'm at fault will then it's straight down the line fault not recruited.

Nuala, I disagree. For decades I have viewed him ...

2013-03-05T21:11:22.777Z

Nuala,

I disagree. For decades I have viewed him and the others butchers as war criminals. I think one of the PUP criticised me for saying Bobby Bates was a war criminal after he had been shot dead. The war didn't make Murphy a criminal or a psychopath. But it made him a war criminal. The acts he carried out were carried out by one of the organisations that was involved in the war.

While on a different scale Reinhard Heydrich was a criminal of unspeakable barbarity and may well have been a psychopathic killer without the war, but the war made him a war criminal.

Wars being violent dirty affairs which allow people the opportunity to indulge in violence open up space that people like Murphy are eager to fill.

Nuala, I thought it funny particularly in the com...

2013-03-05T20:51:38.204Z

Nuala,

I thought it funny particularly in the comment about taking you to the wrong destination. But we have a pluralist ethos here and what pleases one may not please another.

Mackers, That's the point he was not a war cri...

2013-03-05T20:47:31.748Z

Mackers,
That's the point he was not a war criminal, all who knew him including the arresting cop said Murphy would have murdered and in the most savage manner in any society.
Brendan Hughes reiterated this believe in relation to Bates they were not products of war they were full blown psychopaths.

Mackers, I found Martys piece in poor taste, but t...

2013-03-05T20:44:14.396Z

Mackers,
I found Martys piece in poor taste, but that does not mean other people would not find it witty sadly. I just re-read it and to be honest it sounded as bad on the second read just like me repeatedly spelling Ilk wrong it does not make me a bad person but I always find predictably in certain contexts annoying.

Nuala, for those who think there was a sell out i...

2013-03-05T20:09:59.923Z

Nuala,

for those who think there was a sell out it is valid to argue that the Provos as an organisation sold out. When I claim the Provisionals picketed my home I am right to do so even though all Provisionals did not Picket it nor did all of them agree with it.

I found Marty very witty with his earlier commentary.

Nuala, the moral calculus of a war criminal. With...

2013-03-05T19:29:23.891Z

Nuala,

the moral calculus of a war criminal. Without wars there are no war criminals. They may well be something else equally as bad but it is war that gives rise to war crimes.

Nuala, I think that people see the name as going ...

2013-03-05T19:23:48.054Z

Nuala,

I think that people see the name as going with the organisation. And when they describe the organisation as the Provisionals they are asserting their own republicanism. Also as the Provos make a play these days of not liking being called the Provos, there might be an element of flipping the bird at them.

I think there was a sectarian strain that ran though the organisation. Many people in the North and East of Belfast had a very sectarian outlook at times. Derry men in the jail were often perplexed at the Belfast sectarianism. At the same time it was Belfast people including people from around Clonard or close enough to it who opposed the descent into sectarianism that they believed to be happening in the mid 70s.

Anthony we may hear long winded and opinionated ex...

2013-03-05T19:14:42.966Z

Anthony we may hear long winded and opinionated explanations but a satisfactory one will never be forthcoming I,m afraid its like the truth a complete stranger in this seedy affair called the troubles, big news tonight on the BBC Harry Fitz scooped in Italy on £450 mill property and fraud charges thats gonna make a hole in the retirement funds...