Comments on The Pensive Quill: Tribute To A Comrade In A Sombre Place

James, just because they are not strong doesn...

2012-12-27T14:24:29.052Z
James,

just because they are not strong doesn’t mean they are not right on their analysis.

When they start to force it down everybody’s else’s throat it is a standard feature of a cult – whether in the WP or elsewhere.

Larry, The socialist dog bit too many of its own....

2012-12-06T18:25:26.992Z
Larry,

The socialist dog bit too many of its own. For this reason I always find Animal Farm an all time classic.

James

Just look at the influx of new recruits to SF, I really cannot see the difference between them and SDLP these days.

The SDLP are not as opportunist or unprincipled and they are further to the left than SF. That might not amount to a lot given that it is a relative thing.

if history tells us anything a military solution to freeing Ireland is not a realistic option.

Not much to disagree with there.

James re Queens offering a" masters degree o...

2012-11-25T13:38:22.125Z
James re Queens offering a" masters degree on lie and sly-ology" brill a cara and guess who the prof would be? yip he has the beard and no it aint santa...

James has left a new comment on your post "Tr...

2012-11-25T10:52:18.976Z
James has left a new comment on your post "Tribute To A Comrade In A Sombre
Place":

James,

I think in Ireland like elsewhere people do not understand others’ understanding of socialism. It has little traction because of the manner in which it has been implemented. People have little faith it in. And that socialists are foremost in imposing censorship people don’t get a chance to fully understand it. Many opposed to capitalism simply are not going to make the effort to put another crowd in who will oppress them much as before. I think it was John Kenneth Galbraith whop said ‘under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.’ I imagine many people think he has hit the nail on the head.

AM, I did get a little tickle under the arm in rel...

2012-11-19T18:12:09.428Z
AM,
I did get a little tickle under the arm in relation to this statement.lol. WP "They more resemble a cult than a serious political force". lol. I aint to sure about the cult, bearing in mind any group meeting could be looked as a cult iF you really took it apart either political or no. You are right on the serious political force, but just because they are not strong doesnt mean they are not right on their analysis. I am sure you agree on that one. I found there analysis to be very informative, clear, crisp and and generally factual based. It simply was. Now, I am not a advocate for the WP, I disagree with some of their strategy in which I read about, but I value everyones opinion on their organisation. Everyone has a voice, which needs to be valued just as much as anyones else in my opinion. I have read many IRSP writtings and there is aint much of a difference in theory BAR a military campaign with no success. The CPI may have taken apart the WP stages theory, but I am sure the WP could take apart many of the CPI theory. You also said that the Sticks were great drinking partners, christ now, I find that funny because one stick said to me the provos would plant a bomb on thursday and drink all over the weekend about it with a wolfe tone soundtrack.lol.I would love to investigate this to see if this is factual. My opinion, there were are good and bad in all organisations, one mans friend is anothers enemy. Your book basically told it as it was, and it took courage, I tip my hat to anyone who may have to stand in isolation for the truth. Hopefully, it will lead the way to inspire others, when the people refuse to listen to the SF lie machine "peace process"as an excuse
or get out of jail card when they simply are not much different from the DUP in relation to style of dictorial government at the expense of the electorate. Both these organisations needs sectarism to keep them where they are in power. I wonder will queens be offering a new masters degree on lie and sly -ology for our new young political elite.?

James, very little careerism with them after ...

2012-11-18T20:07:07.840Z
James,

very little careerism with them after the crew that left for democratic left.

But very little of them left either and what was left has had a negligible impact. They more resemble a cult than a serious political force. I think that has to beg questions of the whole enterprise.

The biggest crime throughout the troubles was for the sf leadership to lie to their grassroots, the people who endured the most.

But do you not think this accentuated the extent to which they have ‘gone Stick.’? That was one of the things I thought characterised the Stick leadership – its incessant lying. I think it seems to go with the revolutionary turf: the so called revolutionaries find themselves eager to abandon revolutionary ground but because of the history, often of lives lost and hardship endured, they want to mask the abandonment.

The peace process is nothing other than the defeat of the IRA. That is why the British embraced it and gave it so much time.

Thanks for your generous words on my book.

Larry,

The '50s campaign was shunned by a nothern RC population more interested in rights within the UK than the border.

The Provo campaign pretty much met the same fate. It was only supported by a minority of nationalists in the North who at the end of the day were prepared to settle up on terms within the NI state.

AM, Joe McCann and Seamus Costello were deliberate...

2012-11-12T14:41:13.368Z
AM,
Joe McCann and Seamus Costello were deliberately taken out to deprive the struggle of key radical leaders and allow other leaders 'we can do bisiness with' to emerge in their place. I can see this now. It definately was a dirty war, I read the other day that there are only 22 countries in the world that the brits didnt invade or had strategic interests. What gets me is that, I cannot see where it is going to end,stormount for me is just a talking shop,there are 108 MLA's here governing 1.5 million people than the whole of the US seanate and multi millions of amercians. So when they are up on the hill talking about cuts needed to balance the books, what in effect are they talking about,given the fact that capialist america is in debt to the tune of 3 trillion to china,just to keep the system afloat. Just look at the influx of new recruits to SF, I really cannot see the differnce between them and sdlp these days. they are doing alright with their cosy salary and "live for free expenses". Professional liars. When I was a child I used to go to pantamines and laugh at the people on the stage,in costume and what silly things they say, whereas today the people on the stage seem to be laughing at us. mental really. They generally do believe us to be fools. I had a debate the other day with a shinner about stormount is not delivering and is simply cost ineffective. I was hit with the classic and frequently used "There is no other solution". How can you vote against the cuts in public and then implement them on the other and say it is for the good of the people. In relation to costello and mccann, the people I spoke too have varied opinions on the two. I also beleive if history tells us anything a military solution to freeing Ireland is not a realistic option. Even if it was free, what does free mean, free like the system of goverence in the south, christ not for me.Only my humble opinion.

So very true Anthony

2012-11-12T11:09:33.012Z
So very true Anthony

Marty, it is a sign of the times where fidelity t...

2012-11-12T08:00:29.997Z
Marty,

it is a sign of the times where fidelity to the past becomes a hard to trade commodity. Kenny and Gilmore are performing statecraft.

What woud have been truly sickening is Adams or McGuinness turning up with their blood dripping wreath, saying that it was the IRA they were not part of it that did it.

Joe McCann and Seamus Costello were deliberately taken out to deprive the struggle of key radical leaders and allow other leaders 'we can do bisiness with' to emerge in their place.

Just finishing the book stakenife by Ingram and Ha...

2012-11-11T21:02:56.328Z
Just finishing the book stakenife by Ingram and Harkin and although i've read most of the material elsewhere it does crystalise things. The brits and their agents were doing most of the killing here. So for Liam Adams to be promoted in spite of what was known about him and for marty+gerry to be where they are today is no accident nor down to good operating practices on their part. It is all by design. END OF.

Super Dollars?

2012-11-11T20:39:18.891Z
Super Dollars?

When I watched tanaiste Eamon ex stick/oira Gilmor...

2012-11-11T20:17:34.551Z
When I watched tanaiste Eamon ex stick/oira Gilmore laying a wreath in Belfast today,to commemorate those who executed the men of 1916, butcher the innocent in Derry ,Ballymurphy, and the New Lodge, then I realised why people like Seamus Costello and Joe Mc Cann had to taken out of the equation, more willing to be associated with the oppressor than the oppressed these people and I will include Adams and Mc Guinnes here along with their cronies in quisling $inn £ein would never have achieved their low ambitions had real revolutionaries been allowed to live,which then begs the question was it always their game plan to arrive where we find ourselves today,or were they just to weak and cowardly to continue the fight..

James Agree with what you say there. Socialism is...

2012-11-11T08:36:14.387Z
James

Agree with what you say there. Socialism isn't wrong. It has been demonised to the extent the mere mention of it is a turn-off. Like 'republicanism' for many people. Ask people if they want cuts to pensions, welfare etc and there's a different reaction. The socialist dog has been given such a bad name people don't even want to know what he looks like before rejecting him. Banging on about it is self defeating from the get-go.

THAT'S THE CHALLENGE i think.

James; This relentless pursuit of middle class yo...

2012-11-10T20:22:22.943Z
James;

This relentless pursuit of middle class you've mentioned in your second post is simply what I was trying to address in mines.

Perhaps some people are pursuing middle class-dom but I was merely trying to demonstrate that there are many who are technically middle class (according to the RG scale) but neither aspire to it or consider themselves part of it. Other forces were at work that pigeon-holed them into that bracket and I used the social housing example to illustrate my reasons for believing this.

You said you believed socialist ideology was misunderstood in Ireland and I was responding to this.

James, in many things they did the 360 degree tur...

2012-11-10T18:41:37.589Z
James,

in many things they did the 360 degree turn the Provos did. They did it in relation to Stormont, unionism, the British State, the RUC. I think one of the reasons that the Sticks have not implemented the Tory cuts in the North is because they don't have the chance to. They are not poweful enough. And when they get powerful enough, as they did in the South, they end up like Eamonn Gilmore and Pat Rabbitte, the mudguard of the right wing austerity revolution. One of the reasons I feel that the Provos ended up as they did was because they were infected by the Stick virus.

Now the question we need to ask of ourselves is if the Stick virus is a product of physical force republicanism or stand alone. I think the militarist mindset slips all too easily into the Stalinist one - and then people are just on the road to where the leadership takes them. And where both Stick and Provo leadership has taken their people is into the debacle that exists at the minute. It is also very interesting to me that many who were with the Sticks now vote for SF at election time - although these are the people who ended up as the ORM.

On the wierd politics: stages theory in the North; the role of the multinationals in the South as a means to industrialise; The Irish Industrial Revolution proved to be a deeply flawed document and was taken apart by the CPI. Their uncritical support for the RUC and the supergrass system. Their support for censorship and the suppression of internal debate. Their organised lying in respect of their relationship to Group B.

And yet many of them continued to retain this strong social conscience which I benefitted from.

There is so much I found wierd James. In the years since I got out and got a chance to befriend some of the Sticks, their own reflections proved invaluable. They could be very critical.

Belfast Bookworm, I cant get my head around what y...

2012-11-10T13:55:14.031Z
Belfast Bookworm,
I cant get my head around what you are saying here.
"I have to say I have never been accused of being middle class by others either and think you're perhaps under rating people's comprehension of class and class issues". A great book to read on the subject is "Chavs" The demonisation of the working class" by Owen Jones. It was voted no1 politics book of the year and it simply charts from thatcher to the present day. Fantastic read. In my opinion and my experience, there is a relentless pursuit for people to aspire to be middle class - this is supported via the media, what tool this is in shaping peoples mindset.Just look at the new GAA. I dont own my own home, but like you I have been through the education mill with masters, degree and various other professional qualifications and all I ever learned from them was to place profit before the people. I am not having a go, but could you tell what you mean by the sticks having weird political ideas? One thing for certain I trust these people by what the claim in their manifesto, they would never implement tory cuts thats for sure and their princliples seem to be constant for the last 30 years, they havenet hit the 360 u turn by the leadership of the PSF thats for sure. I find it astonishing that SF in stormount are implementing tory cuts. Now dont get me wrong there are a fair amount of champagne socialists knocking about.

James; don't disagree with a lot of what you s...

2012-11-09T20:10:37.121Z
James; don't disagree with a lot of what you say except that I think class, like socialism is a mindset.

According to the registrar generals scale, or Thatchers PR stunt, I'd be labelled as middle class; I own my own home, ie its mortgaged to the hilt, I have a degree, a car.. All that. But I am most certainly working class and a socialist. Many people I surround myself with would also be in similar circumstances, but they're all working class socialists.

We had to buy our own homes because the chronic lack of social housing for nationalists meant we'd be on the waiting list for years and then if we ever did get housed, neglect by statutory agencies would mean substandard housing.

I have to say I have never been accused of being middle class by others either and think you're perhaps under rating people's comprehension of class and class issues.

Larry, I believe in my heart of hearts that the so...

2012-11-09T14:42:26.688Z
Larry,
I believe in my heart of hearts that the socialism idealogy is very misunderstood in Ireland. Put simply it is by the majority working class people for the benefit of the working class people. When you ask people what do they think of socialism they simply shug their shoulders and go "nah", but tend not to understand it. Ideologies are shaped through the sociolisation process from education, church, media, peers, family. In this capatalist society having the label of being a sociolist or leaning to the left have have serious reprecusions on the quality of your line in the form of employment opportunities. One thing is for certain there is more solidarity with the rich and maintaining there status quo than the poor trying to reshape their form of government here in Ireland. I also believe that people do suffer from a class consciousness here in the form of if you are buying your own home and have a car probably through one form of debt or another people automatically beleive they are middle class when in fact they are not. That was a master stroke by that c..t thatcher in the 1980's letting people buy their council house and they wil think they are middle class, in effect in my opinion if you have to get up in the morning and have to work pay for your material belongings you are working class.simple.

Talking of socialism I'm reminded of hearing t...

2012-11-08T22:23:46.482Z
Talking of socialism I'm reminded of hearing the tail-end of a radio interview last week during the US election and a Romney-ite was almost hysterical when it was suggested to him that Obama might win.

'Socialism, or something EVEN worse! Is that what Americans want?!'

Made me chuckle.

No disrespect to this very good article, but the s...

2012-11-08T19:26:39.608Z
No disrespect to this very good article, but the sad thing in Ireland is that Socialism isn't of interest to the Irish people. I don't think it ever will be.

The '50s campaign was shunned by a nothern RC ...

2012-11-08T19:06:23.220Z
The '50s campaign was shunned by a nothern RC population more interested in rights within the UK than the border. The Provos eventually went the same way as the sticks after the british made a
dogs dinner of things early on with massacre internment etc. Are we seeing that in 2012 the British have learned sweet FA in thirty years with selective internment and prison beatings? Or are they just determined to treat northern RCs as 'natives' not citizens?

(answers on the back of a postage stamp)

Will people voting for the disgraceful SF stop the Brits snatching defeat from the jaws of an easy victory AGAIN?

If so inteligent and sociable company may be bugger all use to anyone.

Yeah, their political ideas are pretty much the sa...

2012-11-08T18:39:50.789Z
Yeah, their political ideas are pretty much the same as cuba on housing, health, education, and a system of government which is for the people- very little careerism with them after the crew that left for democratic left. I found their analysis refreshing on tax avoidance, and how SF and the dup have basi ally been having sham fights in the public to maintain their own power up on the hill. They also mached up the shankill a few weeks back on a anti sectarism march fo rthe workers. Really funny story there. SF joined the parade on royal avenue, by the time they hit the shankill road the magically disapeared only to magically re-appear for the photoshoot on the other end of northumberland street - then back into town. lol. I was on the march and seen it with my own eyes.history revisionism at its best. Yes AM in my opinion your analysis of SF is nothing short than spot on, especially in your book, great read. The biggest crime throughout the toubles was for the sf leadership to lie to their grassroots, the people who endured the most. I class myself as a republican based on the european tradition in which tonne et al formed theirs. Military or reformist, who got it right in the end? One thing for sure the hyprocracy of SF peace process is simply breath taking for me.

All sticks and all Free Staters.

2012-11-08T18:32:54.565Z
All sticks and all Free Staters.

Belfast Bookworm, I guess this is why I refer to ...

2012-11-08T18:29:47.983Z
Belfast Bookworm,

I guess this is why I refer to the Stick virus that has infected republicanism. Your earlier point that many say sure we are all Sticks now' is so true. John Kelly said it while still a MLA many years ago.

Anthony; 'their Stalinism and intolerance of d...

2012-11-08T18:02:32.641Z
Anthony; 'their Stalinism and intolerance of dissent'

Now where have I heard that just recently?

Comments on The Pensive Quill: Tribute To A Comrade In A Sombre Place

James, just because they are not strong doesn...

Larry, The socialist dog bit too many of its own....

James re Queens offering a" masters degree o...

James has left a new comment on your post "Tr...

AM, I did get a little tickle under the arm in rel...

James, very little careerism with them after ...

AM, Joe McCann and Seamus Costello were deliberate...

So very true Anthony

Marty, it is a sign of the times where fidelity t...

Just finishing the book stakenife by Ingram and Ha...

Super Dollars?

When I watched tanaiste Eamon ex stick/oira Gilmor...

James Agree with what you say there. Socialism is...

James; This relentless pursuit of middle class yo...

James, in many things they did the 360 degree tur...

Belfast Bookworm, I cant get my head around what y...

James; don't disagree with a lot of what you s...

Larry, I believe in my heart of hearts that the so...

Talking of socialism I'm reminded of hearing t...

No disrespect to this very good article, but the s...

The '50s campaign was shunned by a nothern RC ...

Yeah, their political ideas are pretty much the sa...

All sticks and all Free Staters.

Belfast Bookworm, I guess this is why I refer to ...

Anthony; 'their Stalinism and intolerance of d...