tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post5685299732045848731..comments2013-03-07T18:27:35.656ZAMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comBlogger142125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-48475632438449242842013-03-07T16:55:15.348Z2013-03-07T16:55:15.348ZAM:&quot;often it is the most ideologically committed that inflict the worst atrocities&quot;. True. Depends on the ideology as well I suppose.<br /><br />I agree wholeheartedly with your &#39;hold the police to account but don&#39;t shoot them&#39; argument.Simonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-51890147579405264372013-03-07T15:37:21.942Z2013-03-07T15:37:21.942ZSimon,<br /><br /><i>Nepotism and favouritism were the &#39;isms&#39; of the day.</i><br /><br />Have the five isms of republicanism been usurped by these two?<br /><br />we need an official police service with accountability and scrutiny bodies to prevent nepotism on the one hand and cruel exploitation of reported crimes for security reasons on the other.<br /><br />This would seem self evident. Have the people a right to policing? How can we argue they don’t? How does republicanism address policing without clashing with that right?<br /><br />Can republicans support the armed British police? I don’t see how they can. But they can let policing run its course and seek to hold it to account. They don’t need to say they politically endorse the police and they don’t need to shoot them. Republicans can politically oppose the police without resorting to arms.<br /><br />Because the Provos had no bottom line it would not surprise me if they had have got involved in the drug trade and sought to silence anyone asking questions. I don’t believe they were ever in the trade as such (taxing it might be a different matter.) But the leaders could easily have pushed it and the rest would have followed, same as happened with everything else.<br /><br /><i>So to conclude I believe the jury is out but leans towards a moral army.</i><br /><br /><br />An arguable case can be made for that. <br /><br /> <br /><i>I suppose ethics often accompany armed combatants who believe in a just cause and have a benign ideology and philosophy as opposed to career soldiers, &#39;adventure&#39; seekers or prison dodgers which are found in most conventional armies.</i><br /><br />Yet, often it is the most ideologically committed that inflict the worst atrocities: driven by ideological zeal they seek to &#39;perfect&#39; the world in their own image. Not very different from those who set out with religious fervour. AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-33517607437397380102013-01-15T19:24:56.018Z2013-01-15T19:24:56.018ZAM- &quot;I believe this could be seriously challenged&quot;. Ho ho. Me too. I realised this as soon as I hit the &quot;publish&quot; button.<br /><br />I think the PIRA damaged Republican ethics by the poor management of reports of sexual abuse. Nepotism and favouritism were the &#39;isms&#39; of the day. Although the people responsible may have been in a minority it happened to too many women and justice wasn&#39;t done in too many cases. Hell, one case is too many but miscarriages of justice occurred more than a handful of times.<br /><br />Sexual crime and lack of punishment by Republicans before the 1969/1970 split is an unknown quantity so comparisons are difficult.<br /><br />However, I believe this is a reason why we need an official police service with accountability and scrutiny bodies to prevent nepotism on the one hand and cruel exploitation of reported crimes for security reasons on the other. I believe support for the police before partition is necessary if partition is on the long finger for exactly this reason. However they have made a mess of it with MI5 involvement, the poor performance by some police ombudsmen and lack of power for the policing board.<br /><br />Non-involvement in the drug trade as confirmed by people who would otherwise like to say different like John Alderdice for example and the anecdotal security accounts of the PIRA calling the police to report a cocaine smuggling operation for instance confirms a moral side. Although Alderdice claims lack of involvement in drugs was purely to avoid the accompanying informers.<br /><br />Also, criminal elements were often expelled by the PIRA like the Dublin faction who raised funds for personal use.<br /><br />The knee-capping of sectarian killers who killed a Protestant gentleman in North Belfast was one of many indications that the PIRA paid more than lip-service to anti-sectarianism although then again there were too many instances of sectarian killing particularly in the 1970s. Loyalists proprtionately killed more uninvolved Protestants than the PIRA did and numerically weren&#39;t far behind.<br /><br />Sinn Fein&#39;s vocal support for some non-security human rights issues was welcome also.<br /><br />So to conclude I believe the jury is out but leans towards a moral army. Much more moral than conventional armies in any case. I suppose ethics often accompany armed combatants who believe in a just cause and have a benign ideology and philosophy as opposed to career soldiers, &#39;adventure&#39; seekers or prison dodgers which are found in most conventional armies.Simonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-28734712045483920382013-01-15T18:04:32.480Z2013-01-15T18:04:32.480ZSimon <br /><br /><i>I believe that Republicanism has to be inherently rights-driven otherwise why be Republican at all?</i><br /><br />I feel republicans should be examining this statement rather than strategising about armed campaigns which always end up as rights denying. <br /><br /><i>Republicanism devoid of ethics, morals and rights is clearly a bastardization of what Republicanism has been for centuries.</i><br /><br />How far did we in the Provos bastardise republicanism do you think? <br /><br /> <i>thankfully to the present day Republicanism has been &quot;rights driven&quot;.</i><br /><br />I believe this could be seriously challenged.<br /><br /><i>I would rather look to the past to a rights-driven Republicanism than a possible future Republicanism that is not.</i><br /><br />The argument could be made that a future republicanism has a chance to be rights driven in a way that a past republicanism was not.<br />AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-49427521538635333862013-01-11T22:36:28.784Z2013-01-11T22:36:28.784ZAM: &quot;A rights driven republicanism should have no problem with that philosophy.&quot; <br /><br />I believe that Republicanism has to be inherently rights-driven otherwise why be Republican at all? James Connolly presciently warned about the possibility of gaining independence but being governed by Irish tyrants. The Proclamation states about &quot;cherishing all the children of the nation equally&quot; which I take, in it&#39;s context, to mean all citizens. <br /><br />Republicanism devoid of ethics, morals and rights is clearly a bastardization of what Republicanism has been for centuries. The first Republicans were the United Irishmen and all the way down the line including thankfully to the present day Republicanism has been &quot;rights driven&quot;.<br /><br />Some people may say why look to the past for guidance and I would reply by explaining that people from the past gave inspirational leadership. I find it inspirational significantly because of a tolerance of difference and protection of the weak- nationally and internationally. Like female emancipation and the work of people like Casement against the slave trade or, more recently, to solidarity with people like the Palestinians who are constantly being persecuted and oppressed. <br /><br />I would rather look to the past to a rights-driven Republicanism than a possible future Republicanism that is not.Simonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15029656112153509987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-51805656629831197522013-01-10T08:37:57.093Z2013-01-10T08:37:57.093ZJohn, <br /><br /> <br /><i>I don&#39;t believe that if a person accepts the teachings of the Catholic Church they should be called bigots for so-doing</i><br /><br />If the Church teaches bigotry they should be. <br />AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-56704719814832797652013-01-09T14:36:49.207Z2013-01-09T14:36:49.207ZSimon<br /> <br /><i>We should continue in the same spirit and work towards equality for homosexuals and same-sex couples. Otherwise we are poor versions of Republicans.</i><br /><br />A rights driven republicanism should have no problem with that philosophy.<br />AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-14090860521958671342013-01-08T08:47:22.018Z2013-01-08T08:47:22.018ZItsjustmacker<br /><br />I am not at all persuaded by your defence of the term &quot;deformity&quot;. How consenting adults of whatever sex pleasure each other is a matter for them. The state and church should keep away from the bedroom. Why we even bother discussing the issue in terms of normal and abnormal is something that might deserve closer scrutiny. <br /><br />Are gay relationships harmful? Not that I can see. <br /><br />Is anti gay bigotry harmful? Very much so. And I accept that you don’t come at it from an anti-gay position. <br /><br />John,<br /><br /><i>If Jimmy Saville generally attacked females, clerics generally attacked males. If the one is heterosexual abuse, the other is homosexual abuse.</i><br /><br />A better term is rape or sexual abuse. Rather than term Savile a heterosexual abuser I would call him rapist celebrity, just as we would call a cleric a rapist priest or vicar or whatever. The sex of the victim is less significant than the horror they sustained. <br /><br />Alfie,<br /><br /><i> I showed no such thing ... Sipe found no connection between whether a priest was homosexual and whether he abused minors ... Moreover, even the John Jay report itself affirms that there is no evidence <br />linking homosexuality and clerical sexual abuse of minors ... If anything, the report says, the abuse decreased as more openly gay priests began serving the Church. </i><br /><br />Sort of throws a different light on it from the one the religious right would have you believe. Good for you. <br />AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-43690709635015577772013-01-06T14:56:30.240Z2013-01-06T14:56:30.240ZJohn,<br /><br />More revealing that Belfast Bookworm’s question is you not answering it. There are people who think religious nuts and fascists should be able to have bring up children but gays should not. I would worry about a child brought up by a religious nut but would not advocate banning it. If the child was treated well in a religious family, that is what matters. If we take an extreme example should the Phelps family be allowed to adopt children? AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-88957960494202940162013-01-05T20:45:07.338Z2013-01-05T20:45:07.338ZBelfast Bookworm,<br /><br /><i>I&#39;d feel safe leaving my child with a gay man.</i><br /><br />Absolutely. Or woman.<br /><br />John <br /><br /><i>Do &#39;homophobes&#39; not have a right to tolerance and diversity?</i><br /><br />As much as racists and other bigots.<br />Clerical rape is clerical rape – whether carried out by heterosexuals or homosexuals is secondary to the crime and the cover up. Jimmy Savile is on a par with Sean Fortune. What sex they preferred their victims to be is secondary. And of course each was covered for by the institution to which they belonged. <br /><br />Larry,<br /><br /><i>It&#39;s &#39;in your face&#39; kind of freakery stuff.</i><br /><br />That or something similar is often said about protests. Sometimes banging your shoe works. It looks more like gaiety (pardon the pun) than freakery to me. Clerics in funny hats communicating with spacemen and worshipping zombies I find freaky but others don’t. <br />AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-65901569086250807312012-12-13T09:54:42.505Z2012-12-13T09:54:42.505ZJohn<br /><br />Here&#39;s a recent study undertaken in the biggest Irish institution of all by Dr. McCabe regarding the problems in Irish society. I thought you might agree??<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKpThu1JtUIlarry hugheshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09837849309156970989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-32915454036831009012012-12-13T09:40:31.566Z2012-12-13T09:40:31.566Zfionnuala<br /><br />oh ffs... <br /><br />&#39;I think when you read some of the comments written here by the ultra hetro males it sounds if they are actually trying to convince us of something. &#39;The lads protest too much&#39; just a thought!&#39;<br /><br />women are better mummies than men. Now you know in your wee belfast heart you&#39;ll never be a man, so when you&#39;re finished doing the breakfast dishes fetch Albert another mug of tae. &#39;Good girl&#39;.larry hugheshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09837849309156970989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-52263702672659817042012-12-13T01:57:47.898Z2012-12-13T01:57:47.898ZBelfast Bookworm,<br /><br />&quot;If the teaching is bigoted in its very nature and those who believe and advocate the bigotry, then yes John, I will call them bigots.&quot;<br /><br />I guess I will have to &#39;come out&#39; as a proud &#39;bigot&#39; then. Sure I have been called worse.<br /><br />But you will too, for being intolerant of my religion.<br /><br />AM,<br /><br />&quot;John&#39;s a bigot but I like him!&quot;<br /><br />Lol, Anthony, you are not helping my cause.<br /><br />We could always argue over which of us are the purist bigots.John McGirrhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04406483272037255062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-36430126138840883762012-12-12T23:59:41.405Z2012-12-12T23:59:41.405ZMackers,<br />Ex-prisoners are not considered suitable parents, nor are the over-weight or smokers, so the homosexuals are not on their own.<br />Incredible really, considering that stats real stats not John religious zealot statistics will show that, the big hetrosexual he men are more likely to abuse children than the latter.<br />I think when you read some of the comments written here by the ultra hetro males it sounds if they are actually trying to convince us of something. &#39;The lads protest too much&#39; just a thought!<br />Fionnuala Perryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16112456307341779243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-86207409383808255932012-12-12T23:44:10.666Z2012-12-12T23:44:10.666ZAnthony; I&#39;m sure that&#39;s a Monty Python quote?Belfast Bookwormhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08788284349622223129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-48805391748483507432012-12-12T22:51:27.120Z2012-12-12T22:51:27.120ZBelfast Bookworm,<br /><br />John&#39;s a bigot but I like him!AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-86342440697913892002012-12-12T22:49:12.489Z2012-12-12T22:49:12.489ZJohn; &#39;I don&#39;t believe that if a person accepts the teachings of the Catholic Church they should be called bigots for so-doing, do you?&#39;<br /><br />If the teaching is bigoted in its very nature and those who believe and advocate the bigotry, then yes John, I will call them bigots. Belfast Bookwormhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08788284349622223129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-23293467971397703032012-12-12T20:41:29.917Z2012-12-12T20:41:29.917ZJohn<br /><br />&#39;I don&#39;t believe that if a person accepts the teachings of the Catholic Church they should be called bigots for so-doing, do you?&#39;<br /><br />Agreed ev1 is perfectly as entitled to be as fucked up as I am. But that should also preclude mnost of us from adoption!<br />larry hugheshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09837849309156970989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-5182580243056355122012-12-12T20:17:04.293Z2012-12-12T20:17:04.293ZLarry.Thank you for the clarification,this thread has gone in so many directions I have become unsure about what i am reading.<br /><br />Am in total agreement with that sentiment but Larry what can we do.We have been overrun by touts and collaberaters,Touts,outflanked by SF,pushed to surrender by a loyalist campaign of murder and still we live under the flag of a foreign state,a surprising outcome!<br /><br />We did not surrender Larry but our supposed leadership did. We were not defeated but those so-called intellectuals in SF managed to turn a stalemate into defeat at the negociation table.<br /><br />It is no coincidence that when the Brits need a break from the Irish problem,so that they can go of and impose themselves on some other peoples that the Irish always weigh in and allow them to free up thier resorces,by latching onto a hook with a red hering attached as bait.<br /><br />In the current case it is home rule mark 2 overseen and adjudicated by an honest broker.The Secretary of State.Feel te lovehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17281999605534185574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-9817121106205528192012-12-12T17:42:48.863Z2012-12-12T17:42:48.863Zhttp://www.lifesitenews.com/news/children-of-gay-couples-academically-disadvantaged-studyJohn McGirrhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04406483272037255062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-74506838638853706182012-12-12T17:25:27.900Z2012-12-12T17:25:27.900ZBelfast Bookworm,<br /><br />&quot;I believe that bigotry in all it&#39;s forms should be challenged and that&#39;s what I did in this thread.&quot;<br /><br />I don&#39;t believe that if a person accepts the teachings of the Catholic Church they should be called bigots for so-doing, do you?<br /><br />I do share your condemnation of all bigots and bigotry everywhere though, particularly when they are aimed at people whose only crime is following the Catholic Faith. Anti-Catholic bigotry is alive and well and is not confined to the DUP.<br /><br />&quot;For me, life is sacred so I wont be drawn into an abortion debate with you.&quot;<br /><br />I thought that would be your position. I have no intention of debating the subject with anyone as it has all been done before and this is the wrong thread to do it on.John McGirrhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04406483272037255062noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-60753119271047526942012-12-12T17:04:19.207Z2012-12-12T17:04:19.207ZBoot who out larry and where to?.<br /><br />The british Army out of any/latest nation they are &#39;playing&#39; in just now, as it&#39;s obvious from sky tv today the brit government has no clue what they are doing wherever they are...?<br /><br />larry hugheshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09837849309156970989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-53083364257475338772012-12-12T16:04:22.144Z2012-12-12T16:04:22.144ZBoot who out larry and where to?.Feel te lovehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17281999605534185574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-30729450168545245042012-12-12T15:34:12.450Z2012-12-12T15:34:12.450ZJohn; &#39;I wonder if those sentiments are inclusive of all, or is it another case of ‘live and let live’ for those who back the liberal agenda of our day.&#39;<br /><br />I personally try to apply this everything - difficult as it is sometimes, but I believe that bigotry in all it&#39;s forms should be challenged and that&#39;s what I did in this thread.<br /><br />For me, life is sacred so I wont be drawn into an abortion debate with you. Belfast Bookwormhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08788284349622223129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-76734682655281673032012-12-12T11:23:06.390Z2012-12-12T11:23:06.390ZNot buying the dressed up line. Ive seen enough of them about the place to know different.<br /><br />On &#39;Enery the eitfth...<br /><br />nothin to do with religion. Its a pack of outsiders who have invaded 49 countries and counting and called every one of the natives terrorists. Its their MO/Ronseal moment... they invade smaller nations and fuck people about. People on their coat tails like Roberts mob play cheerleader and get some sick buz out of it all. Probably beat the hell outa working for a living back in those days. Like security force jobs ans screws here for 40 odd years.<br /><br />No John, not a religion issue...a boot them ta fuck out issue.larry hugheshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09837849309156970989noreply@blogger.com