Comments on The Pensive Quill: Standing Outside The Peace Process

Frankie, There is no chance of SF giving an expl...

2013-06-10T18:17:04.800+01:00

Frankie,

There is no chance of SF giving an explanation for the house pickets. They were trying to cover up for the killing of Joe O’Connor and wanted to intimidate anybody who spoke out.

Itsjustmacker, that is a great exchange you poste...

2013-02-09T23:18:55.368Z

Itsjustmacker,

that is a great exchange you posted between IPJ and McClinton. What a pompous tosser McClinton is.

Itsjustmacker, It is quite a good read. It’s a n...

2013-01-25T12:21:33.406Z

Itsjustmacker,

It is quite a good read. It’s a novel form of what Gilmour, O’Callaghan, McGartland and Collins have written.

Frankie; fair points. But if I was a community ...

2013-01-23T13:10:23.698Z
Frankie; fair points. But if I was a community worker in a Protestant community I wouldn't be trying to 'unite the divide'.. I'd be working to show how British imperialism was and is the root cause of the problems here and that not only have Catholics suffered as a result, but working class Protestants too.

Until they understand this there's no way forward in my opinion.

That in my opinion should be done is school. We both agreed that mixed education, same version of history and fact taught has to be introduced one day. I could be wrong but I doubt outside of 3rd level education the PUL community get much in the way of Irish history lessons at school, and that leaves the door open for their brains to be formatted at home before they are 16. What you said in a previous post about it's all well and good getting shared education in schools but the real education is at home is a sad but true reality (I agree in part that community leaders and parents have a bigger role to play than they are playing at prestent)

For todays generation it's serious damage limitation. And everyone should be thinking about making sure their grandkids don't have the same crap screwing up some of their heads. It has to be more beneficial than 'tit for tat' politics.

This shared history/future nonsense isn't working - they're (community relations council, various city councils, ofmdfm) are throwing money at it and apart from a few junkets, no real progress has been made

I'd like to know what community leaders do. I know what they don't do, thats stopping interface violence. Personally there are too many quango's eating up budgets by holding meetings about meetings and the money doesn't reach the comunities.

And the RUC/PSNI have a lot to answer for in how they police 'inferfaces'..I can (we all can), easily draw up the same list of areas that violence is more than likely going to erupt and when. Hopefully politicians & the police are going to understand prevention is better than a cure. All they are doing is papering over the cracks..Once Paddy's day is out of the way, the marching season kicks in and more violence based on symbolism will kick off.

The PUL community have to understand Paddy was Brit who became an Irishman and there is no shame in that, the famine killed Irish protestants too while their landlords got fatter and fatter...and today like their catholic neighbours Got Fcuk All from the GFA also (otherwise everyone would be debt free, having holidays in the sun and chewing the fat of the land).
Maybe community leaders should listen to the likes of Bookworm and lead communities in working class issues that will unite people instead of 'holding party lines' and trying to advance themselves within their parties<--that keeps people divided.

@Michaelhenry..

What Anthony said was..

I have spoken to a few former Shinners who told me they were not allowed to read the Blanket while still in the party

Can you explain to an 'outsider' like myself, while Anthony and others were penning the blanket why did members of PSF attack his home, hurl abuse at his pregnant wife...publicly critise and ostracise other former comrades and blanket men for having an opinion that differed from the leadership..

Read this michael.
Say's a lot more about SF today than any Blanketman...

McGlinchey alleged he was "beaten black and blue" by prison officers: "I don't regret the sacrifice I made but I've been treated like dirt by certain Sinn Féin leaders and supporters."

Talk about trying to win friends and influence people.

Michael dwell on this..

Dissent is the highest form of patriotism
Thomas jefferson....

Well said Anthony

2013-01-22T13:07:14.515Z
Well said Anthony

James, Do you regard China as still fitting into ...

2013-01-22T08:31:01.746Z
James,

Do you regard China as still fitting into the category of socialist country?

I think Standing Outside the Peace Process is a fair enough title notwithstanding your observations. The peace process should not be allowed to hold such sway that everybody must profess to be standing inside it. It should be challenged rather than acquiesced in. It is eminently defensible to buy into the peace without having to be forced to swallow the process as well. I am a dissident and I do not support the peace process. But I am all for peace and was calling for an unambiguous commitment to it while Shinner death squads were killing people. I am against any form of republican violence. If republicans want to use force let it be the force of their argument and their intellect. And all of this can be said while standing outside the peace process. But you have grasped the essence of this quite well in your comment ...like the peace, but are not too fused on the process which is entirely sectarian.

You seem to suggest a tactical accommodation with the term peace process. Not without merit James but I would need to hear a lot more before becoming convinced

michael Henry: "I remember going to a par...

2013-01-22T03:29:49.862Z
michael Henry:

"I remember going to a party meeting in Belfast
just after the event about weapons and a magazine was on sale". Was that Magazine for an AK47?, because you's got plenty of money from the British during a deal for expenditure of said, Weapons decommissioned and none of that money went to the ordinary foot soldiers who fought the war for nothing. Your party sent so called ex combatants to Anthonys door shouting vile abuse, why?, Because He spoke the truth and that was against Adams agenda for his career in politics and, if you deny Anthony spoke the truth then you are well henpecked and below average intelligence. I know exactly what I am talking about regards decommissioning payments from the British.

MHenry judging by your illiterate postings across ...

2013-01-21T22:31:02.552Z
MHenry judging by your illiterate postings across the world wide web I'm sure that no one believed you were capable of reading anything without pictures...

Dixie- " In fact I expect they thought you w...

2013-01-21T21:04:13.464Z
Dixie-

" In fact I expect they thought you
were reading the Beano "

Well i did say that Am wrote that article that i was reading so people maybe thought it was the Beano i had-i was laughing that much- [ you walked into that one ]lol-

Michaelhenry, this of course is true about former...

2013-01-21T20:45:00.512Z
Michaelhenry,

this of course is true about former members with grievances. And I don't doubt your own experience. I know of SF offices where articles from the Blanket were actually printed out and passed round - even if it was only for the Shinners to have a laugh at Tom Hartley's expense. But my own experience would affirm the type of charges made by the people I referred to. There is a whole history of documented censorship in your party.

Said michaelhenry, "...nobody said boo-not 1...

2013-01-21T20:26:15.342Z
Said michaelhenry,

"...nobody said boo-not 1 person in Sinn Fein ever said-dont read that-"

Er, right.

I expect they were all too busy trying to get up the asshole of whichever top shinner was speaking to actually notice you and what you were reading MHenry. In fact I expect they thought you were reading the Beano.

AM- " I have spoken to a few former Shinners...

2013-01-21T18:53:15.748Z
AM-

" I have spoken to a few former Shinners who told me they were not allowed to read the Blanket while still in the party "

Och FFS- is this the next one-

I remember going to a party meeting in Belfast
just after the event about weapons and a magazine was on sale ridiculing said event [ could have been center-point-nearly sure you wrote it ] i bought it and a few others and nobody said boo-not 1 person in Sinn Fein ever said-dont read that-Amazing the big yarns that comes out when someone leaves or got the boot-

Anthony I hope they share the same fate..

2013-01-21T15:00:54.482Z
Anthony I hope they share the same fate..

James, I lean towards WP and the Sinners class...

2013-01-21T11:21:49.603Z
James,

I lean towards WP and the Sinners class me as a dissident.

They try to smear all opposition. But it was something that the WP did as well. This is one of the reasons I keep referring to them having been smitten by the Stick virus.

The rise of Hitlers Fascism and poltical SF comes to mind here

While the two situations are incomparable it is worthwhile looking at both the rise of Hitler and Stalin and just observe what tactics both used. The similarities with SF are glaring but I think it is the type of thing that happens with autocratic leaders at the helm. It is advisable not to see similarities as essences.

Michaelhenry, I have spoken to a few former Shinn...

2013-01-19T21:01:19.212Z
Michaelhenry,

I have spoken to a few former Shinners who told me they were not allowed to read the Blanket while still in the party.

Harry The answer is in the quotes. It is also in ...

2013-01-09T16:11:33.963Z

Harry
The answer is in the quotes. It is also in the social conditioning process from birth via in the system of government which is opposed to socialism. To answer the question fully you would have to look at the role of the:
1. Media
2. The Church
3. The education system
4. The role of Governence
5. Finanical Limitations of the Socialist movement. These are pretty powerful social conditioning tools, it is becoming harder and harder to not to conform to these conditioners, which normally result in isolation, margainalisation, labeling ect. I could name a few good factual books for you, not based on half truths or propaganda to reinforce your view of western society. Maybe is this what you mean by working class being stupid, lazy or ignorant? Or maybe it is something they simply do not know or understand. This aint there fault. Take any tabloid newspaper, how much news do you really get in the 40 odd pages after you take out the celebraty, sports, advertising columns. If you really want to find out how your society is doing, start reading the financial times. Polticians have worked out how to spin anything, to the certain extent that there is never really bad news that we havent heard before. Think about that one. I am willing to discuss any of these topics, but you would need to meet me half way and maybe order a few of the books via your library, if they are in stock. Also as a matter of interest why do you read and post on this blog? What draws you to it? Genuine question that is not loaded with anything? One question that does puzzle me is the what I refer to as working class - see below. Not you are not going to do a thatcher one on me and say there is no classes, we are all middle class.lol.

James:

The Orwell quotes are good, but here's the thing - why does generation after generation of what you refer to as the working class (and/or those in poverty) ignore the messsage of socialism, and in this context Irish Republican socialism, and instead choose to stay ignorant and to put up with systems that deliver nothing but (barely enough) bread and circuses?

Are they stupid or lazy or something else?

Maybe this is of interest to everyone. Some may al...

2013-01-07T23:47:08.383Z
Maybe this is of interest to everyone. Some may already know about it, some may not. Its reference to Emails between two opposing Loyalist.
But makes sound reading into their thoughts.

sunday 10th Dec 2006 from sunday tribune.

Email s between Cornelios (Kenny) McClinton UDA to Ian Paisley Jnr

Dear Ian Jnr & D.U.P. Party Executive.
>
Grace and peace unto you and yours in Christs great omniscent Name;may your hearts and minds be filled with thoughts of him. And the peace He alone can bring.Amen.
You guys in the executive of the party need to promptly turn this situation around before it is to late. The executive need to get together and start to LISTEN to the dissenting voices within your own ranks, for such dissenters are politicians and politicians will not voice dissent unless they are certain that the grassroots DUP electorate are already voicing such complete dissent on the streets of our land!
The argument reportedly posoted by your father that the I.R.A. would be virtually destroyed once Sin Fein give their full support to the PSNI and policing board would be a sound argument IF those signing up to the Policing within Northern Ireland U.K. were honourable people, they are not. Their long war is not over-it is merely going into different mode.
>
With love and Truth
>
Dr Cornelious K. McClinton
BA (Hons);MA,D;D.Litt
Ulster /American Christian Fellowship
-----------------------------------
Ian Jnr's Reply.to above

You Keep refering to "we" as if you are a spokesman for a group or faction within the party that you are not. You are a long time supporter of that I know but that does not make you a spokesman for a faction.
The argument is that the day a republican accepts the crown services of the states police and Royal courts of justice and the rule of British law no matter what they say they cannot call themselves republicans. This will split SF and if you watched any of the Republican news outlets you will see it is tearing them apart internally, Lets not miss this opportunity to beat SF.
Ian.
-----------------------------------
McClintons reply to above
You can keep playing party politics with your groupies, flatters;and'YES men, if you so desire,but if you continue playing word games with your real power, the grassroots voters, you will soon be on the way OUT.
And while we are at it YOUNG MAN, don't you ever in your life question my loyalty or my commitment to the country thatI love! Theres more loyalty in my big toe than you have in your entire body!
Where were whippersnappers like you when I was walking the wings of the H-BLOCKS stark naked on the Loyalist Blanket Protest? Where were you then,BOY?
How dare you throw snide remarks at me, I went out on the 10th May 1977 and shot a man to take all public transport of the roads of Ulster
he shot a 46 year old Protestant Bus Driver on the Crumlin Rd because he was working during the strike Paisley snr called for
why? Because I was into shooting people dead? No! In an attempt to back up your fathers less than popular for a social Strike throughout the land.
Like the rest of you political clowns, you can make plenty of TALK but you actually DO nothing but draw wages.
I am finished with you and your party. Let history declare who exactly was the 'fool' and the 'liar' between me and thee.
Dr Kenny McClinton.
-----------------------------------
Ian Jnr's reply to above
Hi Kenny once again thanks for your email even though I think your not seeing the entire picture. Look whose under pressure tonight-the traitors in Sinn Fein, traitors to Republicanism! Rejoice our enemy is turning against themselves.
its about time unionists recognised when such divisions within the camp of the enemy is in no small part down to our strategy of dividing them on the vital matter of law and order where credit is due!!

Did you know that ; Prior to its conquest in the N...

2013-01-05T00:27:17.176Z
Did you know that ; Prior to its conquest in the Nine Years War of the 1590s, Ulster had been the most Gaelic part of Ireland, a province existing largely outside English control. The area was underdeveloped by mainland European standards of the time it possessed few towns or villages.
Plantation began in 1606, by King James of England, but was King of Scotland.

clickto goto link

Ive just noticed that my post of 9:22 PM, January ...

2013-01-04T23:29:17.932Z
Ive just noticed that my post of 9:22 PM, January 03, 2013, was for the attention of "Harry" , and not as stated "Frankie".
Major error on my part.

My apologies.

Harry: "What does all that whataboutery h...

2013-01-04T10:43:59.830Z
Harry:

"What does all that whataboutery have to do with the RNU policy paper?.
Your the one still harps on about Kincora.
You remind me of someone else on the blog who answers a question with a question, that's called Getting away from the subject.

"Are you saying that people who are involved in this RNU outfit were involved in Kincora?"

Your having a Giraffe.
NO, its was unionists who molested those poor boys at kincora.

Now, if you want to debate the RNU document then I'm willing to do that, but before I do, let me state my position, as I have stated in several posts.
I don't think today's Republicans could sustain an all out war which PIRA had done, and in PIRA's day, we didn't have the luxury of being armed by the British, nor, Orange Bigots in The UDR selling there weapons to Loyalist Paramilitaries and passing on info, and, were involved in Murders and bombings ,known to and allowed by Loyalist RUC and MI5 and the British army, But I honestly believe that today's Republicans have all that knowledge and would act upon it when the time arose , Its them and only them who know when that time will be. I will not be debating Kincora anymore, "You Know all about that", if you want you can write a piece about it, and, I'm sure Anthony would put it on the TPQ for you.

jeez when to start- with the RNU document-debate -...

2013-01-04T01:25:54.558Z
jeez when to start-
with the RNU document-debate - should be welcomed to open up more debate on analysis of revolutionary republicanism its contemporary position and future.
One aspect I did think of today is how do we counter the charlatans of illusion in the media?
The peace process is being sold as done deal from the states you have the likes of Niall O'Dowd (friendly with adams and The Clinton) and his blatant media lies - criticism of anyone that doesn't hold his pals PSF line. A total hypocrite.
Journalism today and this harks back to the -RNU discussion - in beltel - business leaders, local politicians etc got together in "LondonDerry-Derry" that 2013 offers benefit the local economy - and this "one people - one community" etc - they use two names for the same place - how about one island one Ireland!
my point is the power of the media and its in bed with the constitutional politicians.
Lots else here but I came in a bit late have read document few times.
N.B I have an Australian passport (sshh Marty-that's almost identifying info) just get the bloody union jack off the top left corner of the flag!

Harry a cara having a great laff at your pontifica...

2013-01-04T00:43:00.051Z
Harry a cara having a great laff at your pontificating, re being a citizen of norn iorn, well a cara my ancestors owned the fucking place before it was stolen from them so I,ll be waiting for the compo,in the meantime I,ll set my camp up as a subject not a citizen of the british state.and yes my doormat is a union jack or butchers apron as its commonly referred to in these parts with certain justification...

itsjustmacker: What does all that whataboutery ha...

2013-01-03T21:47:57.904Z
itsjustmacker:

What does all that whataboutery have to do with the RNU policy paper?

Are you saying that people who are involved in this RNU outfit were involved in Kincora?

Frankie: Did you click on the link for verificati...

2013-01-03T21:22:16.060Z
Frankie:

Did you click on the link for verification?.

"It's directed at you because you were conversing with Frankie about Kincora.

You even quoted some stuff relating to it and posted a link."

So, doe's it get to you that your Unionist friends were up to there neck in child abuse, also RUC and TOFFS (British Officers), and it was all swept underneath the carpet when Paisley new, The Judge Hughes was a set up, Not one document relating to Kincora was found in the NI office regarding an FOI request, to many red necked unionist were well covered. That is also part of the past, Laws for those who support a union with Britain and no laws for those who do not support a unionist stormont, them days are well behind us, No more looking down at the nationalist's communities, its all equal rights, you give the flag, we take it, that is our future.
Good Night a cara.

"Sorry your so confused, so i will put it thi...

2013-01-03T20:50:05.901Z
"Sorry your so confused, so i will put it this way, If the 6 counties of ulster which is in the North Eastern Part of Our Island ,IRELAND is British, then why does it state on your British Passport, Great Britain and Northern Ireland"

itsjustmacker:

I'm not confused. You seem to have a problem with plain language.

What are you trying to say when you refer to "the 6 counties of ulster which is in the North Eastern Part of Our Island ,IRELAND"?

Do you mean Northern Ireland?

Why does it state "Great Britain and Northern Ireland" on British passports?

That's because that's part of the name of the country that British passports relate to. The full name of the country is 'United Kingdom Of Great Britain And Northern Ireland'. Citizens of this country are referred to as British citizens.

As you know, Northern Ireland is part of this country. It's even in the name.

Comments on The Pensive Quill: Standing Outside The Peace Process

Frankie, There is no chance of SF giving an expl...

Itsjustmacker, that is a great exchange you poste...

Itsjustmacker, It is quite a good read. It’s a n...

Frankie; fair points. But if I was a community ...

Well said Anthony

James, Do you regard China as still fitting into ...

michael Henry: "I remember going to a par...

MHenry judging by your illiterate postings across ...

Dixie- " In fact I expect they thought you w...

Michaelhenry, this of course is true about former...

Said michaelhenry, "...nobody said boo-not 1...

AM- " I have spoken to a few former Shinners...

Anthony I hope they share the same fate..

James, I lean towards WP and the Sinners class...

Michaelhenry, I have spoken to a few former Shinn...

Harry The answer is in the quotes. It is also in ...

Maybe this is of interest to everyone. Some may al...

Did you know that ; Prior to its conquest in the N...

Ive just noticed that my post of 9:22 PM, January ...

Harry: "What does all that whataboutery h...

jeez when to start- with the RNU document-debate -...

Harry a cara having a great laff at your pontifica...

itsjustmacker: What does all that whataboutery ha...

Frankie: Did you click on the link for verificati...

"Sorry your so confused, so i will put it thi...