Comments on The Pensive Quill: Yeehaw

Fionnuala, "Robert, why is your order only o...

2010-09-17T11:57:35.572+01:00

Fionnuala,

"Robert, why is your order only open to Protestants? Has it anything to do with your deep rooted hatred of Catholics?

Perhaps for the same reason why Republican organisations are only open to Republicans. Or an environmental organisation would'nt be open to the CEO of BP. Sinn Fein councillor Billy Leonard, for example, is a former RUC officer, member of the Orange Order and I assume a Unionist. Having foregone the former he qualifies for membership and is admitted to the latter. An atheist organisation is hardly going to admit a person of faith while that person epouses beliefs that are at direct odds with it's tenets.
Accordingly the answer is no.

Robert, not that I disagreed with your comments ...

2010-09-17T11:04:58.595+01:00

Robert,

not that I disagreed with your comments on him. Just wondered about the strain between the positions. You dealt with it

Anthony, "Why prejudge Liam Adams but not Bi...

2010-09-17T10:51:46.593+01:00

Anthony,

"Why prejudge Liam Adams but not Billy Wright"

You are entirely correct. My presentation of that point denied Liam Adams the presumption of innocence. Accordingly that should have read,"Liam Adams, for instance, allegedly has a certain bent for young girls does that make all republicans alleged peadophiles? I think not."

Robert, ‘Resentment, I have heard it said, is lik...

2010-09-12T19:30:43.877+01:00

Robert,

‘Resentment, I have heard it said, is like swallowing poison and hoping the other person
dies!’

Like that one now.

Robert, 'Somewhere within that supposed supre...

2010-09-11T17:46:09.045+01:00

Robert,

'Somewhere within that supposed supremacy the Orange Order found it
within their hearts to allow those they sought to laud over the use of
their halls throughout the country.'

True but effectively answered by another poster.

True, yet hardly the reason many nationalists were able to compare them with the KKK.

‘Liam Adams, for instance, has a certain bent for young girls does that make all republicans peadophiles? I think not.’

Why prejudge Liam Adams but not Billy Wright?

Robert, why is your order only open to Protestants...

2010-09-08T22:27:14.391+01:00

Robert, why is your order only open to Protestants? Has it anything to do with your deep rooted hatred of Catholics?

Why are are you talking at cross purposes in relation to you being against Roman Catholicism and okay with Catholics?
It is the same thing!

Do you think the butchers asked their victims, if they were Roman Catholics or just plain ordinary Catholics.

One of your grandmasters was also a paedophile and I know that does not make all the grandmasters paedo's.
However, if you are claiming to be so multicultural and anti-racist should you not be more than a little concerned that one of your flock, a grandmaster no less is running on a BNP ticket?

Fionnuala, Membership is open only to Protestants...

2010-09-08T20:41:53.081+01:00

Fionnuala,

Membership is open only to Protestants. Why should those mentioned want to join? Does'nt diminish them any less in my eyes. Why should they be? We make no secret of our opposition to the church of rome - I'm proud of that opposition. I'm in good company here on this matter albeit for different reasons.
Nick Blakes political opinions are a personal matter - they are not shared by the Orange Order. Liam Adams, for instance, has a certain bent for young girls does that make all republicans peadophiles? I think not.

Robert, why do you resort to nonsenscial statement...

2010-09-08T19:12:09.555+01:00

Robert, why do you resort to nonsenscial statements about socks? Is it to deflect from the fact you are wrong?

This is a purely hypothetical question, however, on the assumption that any of those catholics you speak about should wish to join your orange lodge, would they get in?

One of your English grandmasters has recently ran for the Westminster elections on a BNP ticket! Your lodge over here refused to condemn him.

I would just like to ask how many times a year does he march round Devon?

Fionnuala, This all sounds good but I can only re...

2010-09-08T18:34:48.482+01:00

Fionnuala,

This all sounds good but I can only relay what I see and experience and as an Orangeman I can declare with all sincerity that we are not a racist organisation. As for being a religious bigot. I suppose the wee Catholic boy my daughter invites into our household on an almost daily basis stands testimony to my bigotry. How about socalising with my Catholic workmates or my Catholic sister in law and brother in laws, nephews and nieces. Given any further thought to those socks?

Robert, the Orange Order are fundamentally racist ...

2010-09-08T18:10:55.794+01:00

Robert, the Orange Order are fundamentally racist and you know it?
If you cared to scrutnize some of those opinions which you appear to be closed to. You will read that amongst all their other little attributes, they are considered racist as well as religious bigots.

Fionnuala, I don't have problems with theoris...

2010-09-08T17:35:05.517+01:00

Fionnuala,

I don't have problems with theorists per se. My issue here was with a patently erroneous comparison between those who are racist and those who are evidently not racist.

Anthony,

Somewhere within that supposed supremacy the Orange Order found it within their hearts to allow those they sought to laud over the use of their halls throughout the country.

Robert, you said my claim did not stand up to scru...

2010-09-08T16:18:13.315+01:00

Robert, you said my claim did not stand up to scrutiny! What scrutiny?
I did not say the orangemen were the Klu Klux Klan, however there are big similarities between them and the white hoods.
I did not know you had a problem with theorists, as you seem to use Freud quite often.

Robert, I think many nationalists took the view ...

2010-09-08T15:41:17.555+01:00

Robert,

I think many nationalists took the view that it was like the KKK because a substantial portion of the membership advocated Protestant supremacy and many of them displayed hatred toward Catholics. For nationalists there were points of comparison.

Fionnuala, With regard to this comparison there i...

2010-09-08T14:59:35.737+01:00

Fionnuala,

With regard to this comparison there is no requirement for me to scrutinize the web or listen to liberal theorists. I often find such theorists like weather men want to try going outside sometimes.
Try as you and others might there is no escape from the multi national aspect of the Orange Order. It's African membership renders null and void any comparison with the Klan.

Robert , what scrutiny, you did not scruinize what...

2010-09-08T12:50:08.541+01:00

Robert , what scrutiny, you did not scruinize what I said. I told you that the Klu Klux Klan comparison had been made by a Liberal Multiculturist in a book written by Will Kymlick et,al.

I also told you the same multiculturalist theorist had quoted a former senior English police officer as saying, what is tolerated in Belfast (in relation to orangemen) would not be tolerated in London, Manchester or any of our cities.

Regarding scrutiny, scrutinize the web and you will see a lot more than liberal multiculturalists draw the comparison between orange men and the Klu Klux Klan!

Helen, "I also compare their parades to tha...

2010-09-07T17:41:24.361+01:00

Helen,

"I also compare their parades to that of the Klu Klux Klan marching through an all black community in the south"

Helen perhaps you can explain where Nuala previously failed in comparing the Orange Order with the Klu Klux Klan. It makes for great propaganda but quickly dies a death when scrutinized.

Alfie, I like your comment about Ms. Edward's ...

2010-09-07T00:13:28.085+01:00

Alfie,
I like your comment about Ms. Edward's "Glorious Revolution". I always see these Orange parades as another way to flaunt their so-called "triumphalism" over Catholics. I also compare their parades to that of the Klu Klux Klan marching through an all black community in the south.

Nuala, that is absolutely right. All of which ma...

2010-09-05T17:41:26.282+01:00

Nuala,

that is absolutely right. All of which makes their case all the more threadbare.

Mackers, of course the rioting is detrimental to t...

2010-09-05T17:15:43.034+01:00

Mackers, of course the rioting is detrimental to the community, however, people like Storey were never overly concerned about riots or 'proud districts' when it suited their agenda.

I really did not think much of the young rioter either, all round it made uncomfortable viewing, but the shinners only have themselves to blame.

michaelhenry, do you engage in a wee tipple before you write your post?
Or maybe that should work in reverse, maybe we should partake before we read it!

Alfie, the rioting is detrimental to the communi...

2010-09-05T16:31:08.908+01:00

Alfie,

the rioting is detrimental to the community. While the bulk of it do not want orange triumphalism it certainly does not think rioting is the cure. Sinn Fein's criticism of the rioting is not without validity. The manner in which Storey made the argument, however, switched the focus from the intellectual vacuity of the youth and made for a self-parody.

Thanks for the link, Anthony. I couldn't help ...

2010-09-05T16:15:48.460+01:00

Thanks for the link, Anthony. I couldn't help but laugh at Storey; indeed it was he who looked ridiculous. Still, the riots were a PR victory for the Orangemen. I suppose I'm in no position to give lectures to those masked youths in Ardoyne either, given that I've never had to endure triumphalist sectarian marches where I live; however, I'm sure that some sort of nonviolent civil disobedience would have been more effective - it certainly would have been more media friendly.

Incidentally, I don't buy into Ruth Dudley Edwards's apologetics for the Orange marches. She claims that the "Glorious Revolution" is worth celebrating as it marks the beginning of constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy in Britain and it introduced a Bill of Rights for subjects of the monarch. It doesn't seem to concern her too much that Catholics were denied all these rights for over 100 years afterwards. To my mind, celebrating the "Glorious Revolution" is like celebrating the birth of South Africa in 1909.

BOBBY STOREY had words that day with youths who ha...

2010-09-05T15:22:30.082+01:00

BOBBY STOREY had words that day with youths who had man utd masks on, hardly traditional, the hard ones now see the brits off the streets, its now time for them to fight,
i have not read to many on the pensive quill who say what specific group that they support,
i see dissidents in the same manner
as the brits or drug dealers, just another mystery,
people are being approached to join the new group, any-one recall
being approached to join the RA-

how much to we love IRELAND, to die for it, to kill for it, to go to prison for it, to live for it,
to be right for it, war, war and peace, peace in public, hate in the eyes of those we love.
to write for it.

Nuala, 'Incredibly intelligent people can be...

2010-09-05T09:30:42.719+01:00

Nuala,

'Incredibly intelligent people can be made to look incredibly stupid, when they are placed in situations that they are not fully programmed for.'

I think this is an apt explanation of what we have seen going on in SF. I remember being at meetings when people came out with the line but they had no great belief in it and when asked an off message question had no cue. Yet they ignored the old adage about what to do when in a hole. At a large gathering in Conway Mill, one of them feigned illness to avoid having to present the case any further.

Alfie, this is a slightly longer version than th...

2010-09-04T21:45:41.599+01:00

Alfie,

this is a slightly longer version than the one that I saw

http://www.u.tv/UTVMediaPlayer/Default.aspx?vidid=131416&chapid=107034&arti_id=4a9569fc-889b-489e-89b6-274149d1ecf7

Anthony, where can I watch the video of the confro...

2010-09-04T21:19:07.320+01:00

Anthony, where can I watch the video of the confrontation? I tried searching for 'Bobby Storey' and 'Ardoyne' on youtube, but without success.