Comments on The Pensive Quill: Far from Powerless

Fair point Alec in relation to capitalism and even...

2013-02-28T08:50:09.023Z

Fair point Alec in relation to capitalism and even the state obviously not facing any challenge in not only Ireland but in most countries in the EU, but I dont think republicanism is any strong position either to be lecturing others on squabbling or sectarianism to be fair.

To be fair, the anarchist movement and in particularly the WSM is involved in an ongoing process regarding these questions you are raising and internal organisational praxis. This is a small glimpse of it here.http://anarchism.pageabode.com/andrewnflood/wsm-history-reply-james-obrien

Their was massive potential via the mass campaign opposing the Household and water charges campaign which was the biggest mass movement since the land league. Only for it to become prone to left parties more interested in jocking for elections and personalities rather than building a grassroots campaign based on local groups and empowering everyone to take take control of it which is what anarchists were pushing.

In relation to 'left unity' I think a distinguishment needs to be made between this and left co-operation. We will never see left unity but certainly left co-operation is always practical and important in single issue campaigns.

Interestingly, after these disasters, there is no discussion about what sort of 'socialism' all this effort is in aid of. Nobody is asking the most important question – what do we mean by ‘socialism’?

Should the country be ruled by a parliament, by workers' councils or even by a one party dictatorship? Should it be old-style left Labour or libertarian socialism? Should it be sympathetic to the regime in Cuba, or even to the totalitarian Stalinist dynasty in North Korea? Where would freedom fit into things?

Anarchists have a good record of working alongside others to win whatever victories are presently possible and of using methods that encourage working class self-confidence and self-organisation rather than soley recruitment likes trots or reliance on personalities and leaders.

Its my experience that any movement is really strong where power resides with the rank and file, because the state can easuly take out the 'key leaders' but a much difficult task challenge one with direct democracy and self-management. The Old wobblies idea that we our all leaders and teach one teach all.

This has gone off topic a bit though Alec :)

Sean, I am all for direct action and self empowerm...

2013-02-27T11:54:19.302Z

Sean, I am all for direct action and self empowerment of the type you describe above. Also, I take your point on the difference between symbolic actions and direct action although sometimes the lines aren't so clear.

Any action that is non state sponsored or is viewed as being in some way extra legal will be be protrayed in a certain manner by the mainstream media. This does not detract from the value of independent action by the workers, the unemployed and the poor. Direct action empowers by raising the level of awareness of those involved as to their potential ability and power to shape the political agenda. Its main strenght lies in the independent nature of such actions vis-a-vis the political structures.

Unfortunately, there is not enough of it in Ireland today. Dispite the objective economic conditions prevaling on a national and global scale, the Irish working class has not responed in defence of its own interests. Of course, there are many and varied reasons for the general lack of militancy, but it is a disappointing state of affairs for those on the left.

However, all the blame does not rest with inert workers wilting under the weight of austerity. The Irish left has also failed to promote a credible alternative. Squabbling and sectarianism has blunted the left's ability to respond to the crisis. Capitalism does not face any serious challenge in Ireland today.

Sean, perhaps this would have made a better artic...

2013-02-27T10:55:36.758Z

Sean,

perhaps this would have made a better article on direct action than a comment where it seems sort of away from the beaten track.

Alec, While I agree with much of your political an...

2013-02-27T10:45:36.063Z

Alec, While I agree with much of your political analysis in relation to loyalism and the 'flags',Direct action is not just a tactic but is much more than this.

From the black block ‘having a go’ to going on marches, from smashing up a McDonalds’ to attending a picket, from throwing bricks to going to fundraising concerts for single issue campaigns – all of these activities have had the term ‘direct action’ applied to them.

Direct action has been confused with actions that are probably best termed as ‘symbolic’ – and which are, on many occasions, ineffective. A lot of the confusion has been due to the media terming anything that they regard as outside the perimeters of ‘normal protest’ as ‘direct action’ – however some confusion is down to activists themselves confusing the terms. Many activists, for example, regard protests such as the G8 summit as direct action, but these types of protests, even if they are successful in shutting down the event, remain as symbolic.

Direct action has also become a by-word for violence, to the extent that much of the anti-war and anti-globalisation movements talk specifically about NVDA – Non-Violent Direct Action. That’s not to say that people engaged in direct action shouldn’t defend themselves or that violence is never acceptable – simply that this view of direct action is partial and misrepresentative.

Clichéd as it may sound; direct action is really about empowering ourselves and breaking the dependency on others (political parties, unions, bosses and official intermediaries) to do it for us!

Direct action is about workers or in our communities acting to defend or improve their conditions using work-to-rule, strikes and occupations rather than relying on the Labour Relations Agency or industrial tribunals to do it for them. A local example of this was the Visteon occupation in west Belfast, where workers occupied the factory in protest to removal of their redundancy packages with the closure of the factory. This was done without the official jurisdiction of the union, despite the factory operating in a ‘closed-shop’ format. The workers done it themselves then informed the union, stating that they would continue with or without their support. The workers were successful and won back their redundancies.

Direct action is a rejection of the notion that working-class people are powerless to change their conditions. Improvements to our lives are not handed down benevolently from above – they must be fought for. For libertarian communists and anarchists direct action is more than an effective means of defence or even of going on the offensive and changing something for the better – it is, for the working-class:
“A continuous schooling for their powers of resistance, showing them every day that every least right has to be won by unceasing struggle against the system” (Rudolf Rocker)

Direct action is an essential preparation for the free socialist society that we strive to create. Through engaging in direct action, even when we made mistakes, we have the opportunity to learn from experience that there is no need to leave things to ‘experts’ or professional politicians. We should have learnt by now that that course offers us nothing but disempowerment, betrayal and broken promises, and results in a pervading sense of powerlessness. And yet we are far from powerless!

Direct action teaches us to control our own struggles while building a culture of resistance that links with other workers in struggles. Solidarity and mutual aid find real expression and as our confidence grows so too does our ability to change the world. It is needed now more than ever, and we also need a campaign which opposes all cuts and fees, which is controlled by its members & participants, which is ready & willing to promote direct action and is willing to fight.

'Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.'frederick_douglass

Frankie: If the pul were treated with kid gloves ...

2013-02-26T23:47:16.848Z

Frankie:

If the pul were treated with kid gloves the consequences would be that the Nationalists were getting weak, there are genuine socialists within the pul community, the problem is, they cant speak out, reprisals are dominant in there areas, the majority of them see socialism as CHINA.

"Wouldn't it be a shock to their system if instead of people marching through Belfast for a flag, everyone (man, woman & beast) walked through in defiance of welfare cuts, poverty, austerity. "

Looks like its going to happen from both sides after today's news.

third of sickness benefit claimants deemed fit for work

Frankie; one things for sure, there'll be a lo...

2013-02-26T22:04:01.938Z

Frankie; one things for sure, there'll be a lot of overtime for the coppers come June between the OO parades, fleg protests and the G8 - which I myself will be taking a jaunt to Fermanagh for.

I would love working class unity in a socialist republic Ireland but it'll never happen. I've spent years through the work I do trying to convince working class loyalists that they've more in common with me than anyone else but I've finally accepted that it can't be done. My own personal opinion is that working class loyalists do not want to unite with me, they want to rule me.

Book worm, I heard and read that they (UK police) ...

2013-02-26T21:43:10.970Z

Book worm,
I heard and read that they (UK police) are being urged not to go unless they have assurances about security. But the RUC/PSNI don't have the man power to poilce the G8 and the flag dispute at the same time. They'll be looking at it as more over time. Come June there will be Scottish, Welsh & English police at the Lakeside wether we like it or not.

On the other point about needing to get former republicans and nationalists on board...I can see where you are coming from. But the PUL community need to handled with kid gloves. Maybe instead of using the 'R' word in trying to unite use socialism ( they inevitably hear green, Rome rule, IRA anytime the 'R' word is used and not the socialist principals republicanism is based on). Which is why I think (for what it's worth) it would be better to find common issues and work from there. Some of the PUL community already post the same views here (working class issues) but get bogged down in who did what first, second or third..Does it really matter who killed who first. An eye for an eye and soon everyone ends up blind.

I'm with the posters who speak out against the folks on the hill keeping the divisions alive for their own ends. Wouldn't it be a shock to their system if instead of people marching through Belfast for a flag, everyone (man, woman & beast) walked through in defiance of welfare cuts, poverty, austerity. Hopefully find common ground.

Both republicans and loyalists agree that their political elite don't give two flying fcuks about the electorate (unless it's voting time). And they agree that both sides got a raw deal in the GFA...

Frankie; 'What will happen if the flag protest...

2013-02-26T20:45:35.617Z

Frankie; 'What will happen if the flag protesters 'picket' the G8 summit? Will the UK police who will be policing the event take the same stance as the RUC/PSNI? Or do what normally happens when any one protests at G8 summits and beat them off the street?'

The UK police are being urged by their unions NOT to volunteer their services in this here Wee Pravance.

2013-02-26T20:20:46.820Z

This comment has been removed by the author.

A very good friend said to me, The British stated,...

2013-02-26T20:16:38.815Z

A very good friend said to me, The British stated, To Know Your Enemy You Have to Become One. So we must also do the same, Education would have to be the norm in various trades through college.

Our youth is in disarray and they need to be taken on board, nurtured and trained for future events!

Those "fleg"protesters should picket the...

2013-02-26T20:03:03.425Z

Those "fleg"protesters should picket the world police and fire games at the Kings hall it could become an international event "Beat the Billy" or "jail the Paddy"

What will happen if the flag protesters 'picke...

2013-02-26T18:57:14.877Z

What will happen if the flag protesters 'picket' the G8 summit? Will the UK police who will be policing the event take the same stance as the RUC/PSNI? Or do what normally happens when any one protests at G8 summits and beat them off the street?

Frankie; 'Republicans have to convince.. The P...

2013-02-26T18:44:09.803Z

Frankie; 'Republicans have to convince.. The PUL community of the merits of a united ireland.. And those south of the border'

I'd say we'll have a hard job convincing former republicans and nationalists.

Seems Marty and I both had Connolly in mind. I did...

2013-02-26T16:58:43.220Z

Seems Marty and I both had Connolly in mind. I did't see until I posted my comment. Still, plenty of space for quotes from the great man all day long.

Connolly said "ruling by fooling is a great B...

2013-02-26T16:19:55.454Z

Connolly said "ruling by fooling is a great Britsh art....", but as Sean points out, there are political forces closer to home who have learned the lessons well. The political carve up at Stormont thrives on division and competition between the two tribes. Why, one wonders, has it not been possible for the parties to reach agreement on a strategy for a 'shared future'? Because it doesnt neccessarily suit their political agendas.

The decision by Sinn Fein to stop the British flag from flying over City Hall - except for on designated days - would appear to contradict their stated objective of persuading unionists/loyalists of the merits of a national democracy. However, there is always more than one way of looking at this issue. From Sinn Fein's point of view, and far be it from me to argue its case, the the decision is the outworking of their equality agenda. It's the old 'shared city' chestnut; parity of esteem, blah, blah.

Not for a second did Sinn Fein fail to appreciate the impact this would have on the other community. Wee Billy on the Shankill Road was never going to accept his 'national fleg' being removed from the great dome even for one day. So what was it about?

Perhaps Sean offers some answers to this question by pointing up the diversionary aspect of the whole affair. It has certainly acted as a distraction from the real issues facing people. The old maxim of 'when in trouble create a skimish' comes to mind.

The other half of Connolly's saying was, "with great Irish fools to practice on". And there it is in a nutshell.

If I had my way the British flag would be put in the bin forever.

Alec,Sean Seamus et al have flagged up excellent p...

2013-02-26T15:50:59.261Z

Alec,Sean Seamus et al have flagged up excellent posts ,without a doubt quisling $inn £ein are now truly partners in the con job thats called the governance of norn iorn and happy as pigs in shit to play along with the orange and green agenda knowing rightly it plays directly into the hands of both themselves and not themselves alone but their phony cronies in the dup, how convenient that vote on flying the butchers apron was for the main parties the dup played a blinder in their leafleting the East Belfast area preparing the community workers and the PUL for the big attack on our "Fleg" and all the while out of sight the real issues such as changes to the welfare benefits etc are slipped through without a whimper from those directly affected, ruling by fooling may be the order of the day but it looks to me that the fools are easy to rule,,,

as ever and poverty has reached new heights...

2013-02-26T15:37:06.145Z

as ever and poverty has reached new heights

Recently a report showed that 43% of children in West Belfast are living on or below the poverty line. i could understand a figure that high in a third world country. But on the fringes of Western Europe! And when the welfare cuts start hitting home in about 6 weeks the figure is only going to get higher. And that will only breed more contempt and probably play into the hands of phyiscal force paramilitarism on both sides making it harder to heal the divide.

Instead of trying to convince the PUL community the merits of reunification (at the minute is a no brainer), wouldn't it be better to convince them that the same socialist issues that they talk about are the very same issues that affect the nationalist community? Several members of the PUL side of the oxymornons have already stated here on the TPQ they feel culturally Irish but politically British. To me they've already crossed the rubicorn. All they need is persuaded to take the leap of faith and the merits of joining together as one voice. In the same way that the relief riots of the 1930's united everyone. All partition has done is create division, instilled hate & fear and cost everyone money. The flag protest has so far cost Joe Blogs somewhere between 15-20 million GDP. That money has to found somewhere, which means less for health, education, re-development...and less money for the working class who need it most.

What no one can deny today in 2013 is partition has failed the left, right and centre. Similarly the Irish republic has failed most people living in the 26 counties. The whole island has a deficit of 25-30 billion euro per year and for the foreseeable future there wont be any change.

Republicans have to convice not only the PUL community the merits of a re-unified Ireland but also people living south of the border. Unfortunatly a lot of the people living in the 26 counties either have total apathy concerning the North or don't understand whats happening. But they have the same social concerns as you & me..
(maybe I haven't made myself very clear but i hope some of you get the jist).

Sean Bres, a simple concluding sentence from Patr...

2013-02-26T13:42:32.162Z

Sean Bres,

a simple concluding sentence from Patrick Murphy in the Irish news seems to get it in one.

Policing appears as political as ever and poverty has reached new heights

There are definitely some excellent points being r...

2013-02-26T10:36:57.276Z

There are definitely some excellent points being raised, and some good suggestions, is now the time to test the disparity of the state? I believe so.

We have evidence from before, ardoyne v ballyclare, newtonabbey and the current round of 'fleg' violence of what we know.

Opportunities to show the state for what it is should be seized. The G8 summit will be held here in June, the eyes of the world will truly be on the occupied six. An opportunity to good to miss?

This is the brits taking the opportunity to say 'look at us, we pacified the irish muck savages' and this is our opportunity to say we are still an accupied state, are people are still oppressed, our citizens rights are still being violated.. too good of an opportunity to miss if you ask me!

I think we can go even further again Anthony and a...

2013-02-26T10:10:12.209Z

I think we can go even further again Anthony and ask were there any gains made on the so-called 'nationalist' side in all this? Perhaps the DUP weren't the only one's trying to shape the agenda.

At a time when austerity cuts are being moved through the Stormont Assembly wasn't this a most welcome diversion for those on 'our own side' struggling to explain to the community how their participation in the administration was of any practical import, given that they are virtually powerless to stop the much-maligned social welfare reforms being introduced by the neo-liberal government of David Cameron? The looming issue of the Justice and Security Bill making its way through the House of Commons as we speak is also potentially damaging to the position of those republicans who now administer British rule in Ireland. But by the time the full ramifications of this begin to enter the public discourse the marching season will no doubt provide all the required distraction to cover the proverbial ass on this one... The politics of manipulation, divide and conquer, are perhaps not exclusive to the British then.

While 'the flag' and spin-off issues there-of, remain the focal point of political debate here, the larger and more important issues that they'd prefer we didn't pay attention to are cleverly disguised. So all this was a God-send for Sinn Fein as much as the DUP. It proved useful as a tool to bolster the sectarian carve-up that was beginning to show tentative cracks at the fault-line, due to these highly aggressive attacks on the poorest sections of society. So rather than communities such as the Short Strand condemning Sinn Fein for participating in a process that was reducing their quality of life, instead in rode the heroes to save the people from the external enemy. Thank you very much Gerry, Martin and Alex, you arrived just in time, where would we be without you. Classic fascist tactics by the way. Returning the state of political discourse to the divisive sectarian stuff of old is a useful strategy when your grip on the community is threatened. Britain used it for years, now it seems our very own are following their example. They learned from the best I suppose and they learned well.

So while 'you can't eat a flag', as the man says, we can also see from all that's gone on here that, to borrow the title of Sean's piece, it's also 'far from powerless'. Both the major parties to the coalition here are fully aware of its power and how it can be manipulated to their advantage. So far they've both played their hand to perfection, the primacy of their position within their own host communities has been secured for the time being. Was that not the goal all along?

Direct action as a tactic has been used by the lef...

2013-02-26T09:56:37.435Z

Direct action as a tactic has been used by the left and right of the political spectrum. There is nothing inherently progressive about it. People take to the streets for a multitude of reasons and the state's attitude to this is to put down popular action. The differential in policing tactics in the north is a matter of quantity rather the substance. Sometimes, it is wiser to deal with those who are essentially loyal citizens with with kid gloves whilst coming down hard on those percived as the real threat. The state has invariably dealt with unionist/loyalist disquiet using the softer option.

The 'fleg protests' are not an expression of worker's consciousness. Rather it is motivated by sectarian attiudes and a misplaced sense of being squeezed by the political system. Many loyalists are unhappy with the political accomodation because they feel it undermines their position. Having enjoyed the patronage of the political system since partition, loyalism is now finding it difficult coming to terms with sharing power with the croppies.

The polarisation created by the 'fleg'issue is a useful by- product for the political classes. Ruling by division is a well practised craft in this part of the world. I suspect to see a harding of positions at the next election that will serve the interests of the two biggest parties. The battle of the Orange and Green is the basic driving force whenever the populace goes to the polling stations. Every vote counts in the age old battle between the tribes.

For Republicans the question of direct action is essentailly one of motivation. Today there are several justice campaigns that are struggling to gain support. Martin Corey and Marian Price are in jail becuase there has not been enough pressure brought to bear on the system to force their release. The peace process has has a debilitating impact on republicans that is evidenced by a lack of political action.

Sean Bres, interesting analysis of DUP shaping th...

2013-02-26T08:41:45.721Z

Sean Bres,

interesting analysis of DUP shaping the agenda

Itjustmackers a cara Eirígi had a anti royal visit...

2013-02-26T08:40:46.881Z

Itjustmackers a cara Eirígi had a anti royal visit rally to the Belfast city hall a while back and a good size turn out also, a march to the city hall on behalf of Marian and Martin and the other pows would be interesting to say the least I for one would be up for it.

Cheers folks for the feedback but I think many of ...

2013-02-26T08:17:38.848Z

Cheers folks for the feedback but I think many of the replies have been misplaced and riddled with mis-understandings.

There is knowhere in the article where I have stated that the protests are progressive for anyone. What the brief article seeks to formulate is the underlying currents behind the protest, republican reponse and their challenge to the status-quo and police reponse.

Of course, the state has deemed republicanism the greater threat rather han loyalism which should be quite obvious. The state will naturally repress those it considers as its greater foe and challenge to monopoly of force. In Ireland this has been historically militant republicanism and in others it has been anarchism and so forth. However, taking up the gun does not make you any more revolutionary. Its the politics and dynamic which underpines such as movement. It may make you brave and courageous but you can still be an armed liberal.

What is quite interesting over the last decade or so is that unlike republicanism with the exception of continuing sporadic armed actions and the brutal interment of Marion Price and others, loyalism has been able to mobilise mass protests over certain issues. We dont need to look at Drumcree but to the riots in 2005 to see this.

Also, I dont see the PSNI response to recent 'flag protests' related to any real substancial bias but down to police resources and level of threat. It is quite 'easy' to police the annual ardoyne riots (without seriously getting out of control) using conventional repressive 'crowd control' resources in such as small densely populated areas such as Ardoyne than rolling blockades taking place in a much larger area.

We can also see this in the 2011 riots in England where it is a alot difficult to police than your normal A-B type march and lefty pickets.

I also wrote a much larger article on the protests which was published here and on WSM website:
'Ulster Loyalism, Flag Protests & the failure of zero sum politics'-http://www.wsm.ie/ulster-loyalism-flag-protests-zero-sum-politics%20

Lastly we all need to reflect on the words from the chinese military tactician Sun Tzu “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself,
you will succumb in every battle.”

@Sean I couldn't agree more with you in statin...

2013-02-26T05:13:34.388Z

@Sean I couldn't agree more with you in stating that a return to an armed campaign at this point would be harmful for all republicans.

I do think the loyalist paramilitaries sent a message to their masters that they could cause problems to get them to back of with the HET ......A grasp for power within unionism doesn't bother me as regardless of who comes out on top they will still have their superior sectarian attitude - what i would really like to see is an opposition to the stormont government that gives a fuck abut the real issues faced by people day and daily, one that can utilise direct action tactics we've seen work all over the globe .....the only thing is you are guaranteed they'll do all in their combined power to stop it .....