Comments on The Pensive Quill: From Defeat to Decommissioning ....and Disbandment...

Liam, hardly anything new there! TB just admitti...

2010-09-04T14:52:20.646+01:00

Liam,

hardly anything new there! TB just admitting what the rest of us knew already. anybody waiting on the floodgate to open and all the liars to come rushing through will be disappointed. He put in a strong display on the Late Late last night.

In his memoirs, Tony Blair says he stretched the t...

2010-09-04T14:24:55.272+01:00

In his memoirs, Tony Blair says he stretched the truth, on occasions, "past breaking point".
Mr Blair admits to "bending and distorting" the truth as prime minister, but says a degree of manipulation and distortion are necessary to govern, and voters accept that. "Politicians are obliged from time to time to conceal the full truth, to bend it and even distort it, where the interests of the bigger strategic goal demand it be done. Without operating with some subtlety at this level, the job would be well-nigh impossible." From the Long War to the Long Lie...(Tony Blair 'lied to stop Northern Ireland peace talks collapsing',
THE DAILY TELEGRAPH 1 September 2010)

Westie a cara, I penned my last response to you la...

2010-08-14T10:07:36.125+01:00

Westie a cara, I penned my last response to you last night after reading your reply and Anthony,s more than gracious response, as for my post well maybe as the man said I should have been more pensive with the quill, to much plum poteen and I was back in the sixties,where the biggest argument was were you a Beatles or Stones fan, (my case Dylan,Stones) anyway my point is your reply was a sweeping statement re the pira and undoubtly most volunteers acted with courage and dignity in the best intrests of the movement, there were more than a few who used the cover of the pira to line their pockets and commit perverse sexual misdeeds,I will say no more on the matter now as its aside from my main point, you say you are a member/supporter of psf yet your not a committed socialist,you must be right at home in psf they who are more than willing to implement capitalist policies,but tell me why do they have a big house on the Andytown rd called Connolly house in honour of the founder of the Irish Republican Socialist Party and the Citizens Army,and sell Connolly badges by the score when really the house should be called Thatcher house and psf should be be selling Thatcher badges instead.as an Irish patriot your words,how can you accept that the party you support has helped copperfasten partition and put reunification even futher back?as for not commenting on things I thought most who come here do so to comment and from what I have noticed about your posts is that you are a clone of Adams yip you prevaricate when asked a straight question,yip Westie stick with psf you are well cloned.

Westie a cara we werent or I wasnt talking about t...

2010-08-13T21:12:33.492+01:00

Westie a cara we werent or I wasnt talking about the operations of the pira, as a supporter of psf and in your own words an Irish patriot,the questions I asked were relating to the actions of psf and the policies of psf,as and Irish patriot can you accept that the party you would call republican are now just a minor cog in the brit establishment,can you explain or comment on the picketing of republicans homes again who do you think would have given the ok for those actions,as an Irish patriot can you accept such actions,I,m not attacking you personally a cara although it sure looks like it, as a republican I have and always will question any and every action and will state what I think is wrong,if as I think you are that you will still tie your colours to psf then all I would ask of you is to at least the relavant questions a cara. beidh ar la linn

Fair enough Westie. Can't really ask for any m...

2010-08-13T20:24:48.407+01:00

Fair enough Westie. Can't really ask for any more than that.

Orwell once said socialism would be brilliant only for the socialists. I suppose you are in that frame of mind Westie. The single biggest obstacle to encouraging socialist ideas in the movement was the socialists. People would go out of jail full of revolutionary fervour and when they came back in again a few years later they had cast it aside and would point to their experience of the socialists they met - usually the Trots.
That always puzzled me until I got out and found out what they were talking about.

Agreed Anthony - there have been many acts by the ...

2010-08-13T20:16:41.435+01:00

Agreed Anthony - there have been many acts by the Provisional Army that one would find it very hard to be proud of - but as an organisation, for what they endured and what they stood for in our communities, I think we will always be very proud!

Marty, I'm not a devout socialist myself, don't understand it enough and I get mixed messages from those I know who claim to be?
More of an Irish patriot!

As for the things I don't comment on, there are many such things on the site. I choose not to, not because I don't have an opinion on them, but because I'd rather keep them to myself.

ádh mor cara

Westie

Westie, 'If Gerry A called someone an eejit...

2010-08-12T19:48:19.002+01:00

Westie,

'If Gerry A called someone an eejit, its a lot less vile than what he
and his fellow Shinners has been called over the past few years,
wouldn't you agree Marty?'

I agree. But not as vile as killing Joe O'Connor.

Wouldn't you agree Westie?

Westie a cara, we are agreed that everyone calls e...

2010-08-12T13:50:09.499+01:00

Westie a cara, we are agreed that everyone calls everyone else a c##t it,s the nature of the beast here.As you must be only a minor player in psf you are right not to expect any invites to the big boys holiday homes unless its to help serve canopies when the have alls throw their soiree,s,on a more serious note re prisioners, I would prefer that we had no political prisioners, but while we do I for one will not turn my back on them,nor label them crims,you still havent answered my question as a member of a would be socialist organisation you could be comfortable with your leadership being more than happy to implement capatalist and anti people policies, nor have you responded to the vile and disgusting tatic of picketing and imtimidating of republicans homes,because they speak out against your leadership,please dont tell me it was a spontaneous outpowering of anger by residents, tell me who would have given the green light for such actions,the hypocrisy of psf knows no bounds,we have an example today in the Irish News where minister Murphy psf states he would,nt want his kids in the psni,then he tries to cloak that by saying he wouldnt want them in the gaurds or metropolitan forces either, I for one cant see why the south Armagh psf minister would have a problem with either forces they turn a blind eye to his mates wee money making ventures, heck they even get away with murder! Marty Mc Guinness has just been on the news mixing about meetings that have allegedly taking place between the two goverments and dissident republicans.he tells us these meetings did take place .its a pity he wasnt so forthcoming to his comrades years ago when he held secret talks with mi5/6 without the knowledge or premission of the other members of the army council.duisigh agus boladh an caife,a cara,beidh an la linn-la amhainn nach nil se 2016 a cara, so you dont believe the bearded one either Westie!!

Marty - I get 'your' point a chara - it j...

2010-08-11T22:37:06.789+01:00

Marty

- I get 'your' point a chara - it just isn't shared by me!

- I'm not expecting any invite to Donegal or any of our other beautiful counties. I have good company of my own.

As for the rest, I belive SF have been the main driving force, and continue to be so for the increase in Irish Language schools throughout the North. No other political party would have ever raised an eyebrow in support of it - and the Acht na Gaelige campaign is nothing to be ashamed about, nor is it dead in the water imo.

On prisoners, I have referred to the Republican prisoners that were released under the GFA. I did not refer to the current prisoners because I accept that SF do not see them as their 'army'. Whilst I do not support the armed actions that are being carried out by the various groups, I do support the prisoner's campaign for political status - but do you not accept that prisoner release was a good thing for those Irish Republicans who did not have to pend further decades behind bars?

If Gerry A called someone an eejit, its a lot less vile than what he and his fellow Shinners has been called over the past few years, wouldn't you agree Marty?

Finally, I don't think many in SF are holding their breath on 2016 or anywhere near it for that matter, but I hope and pray that beidh an lá linn - lá amhain cara.

Slán

Westie

T.P Westie..."They tend to spend most of thei...

2010-08-10T16:21:52.184+01:00

T.P Westie..."They tend to spend most of their time throwing personal and collective insults at Adams etc".Well a cara calling a former member of the party an eejit by Adams ,how would you describe that? Squinter /Livinstone ,week in week out continually taking the piss out of those republicans who dont obey the bearded ones orders,after all rule no 1 he is the lord your god and you shall have no other before him, Marty boy calling republicans traitors crims etc .need I go on westie a cara or do you get the point. Tchifidh me annon thu.

Westie, feeling a bit beleagured here. I think we ...

2010-08-09T22:49:13.954+01:00

Westie, feeling a bit beleagured here. I think we will do what we normally do, agree to differ.

Westie a cara you give the impression that the rev...

2010-08-09T21:25:16.055+01:00

Westie a cara you give the impression that the revival of the Irish language is somehow down to psf, maybe you can give an example of that ,the Irish language act eh a cara mm! We built a school in honour of Bobby Sands in T/brook,no help from psf but there was a push for the bearded one to open it,and thankfully that didnt happen,psf have been stalling and procastinating on the prisoner issue, I suppose they really dont have a choice since they stupidly labeled them traitors and criminals,so a cara please furnish us with something tangible that your socialist mates in psf have provided for our communities other than well paid jobs for their cronies,and the building of their holiday homes, something you never mention a cara ,maybe your hoping to get an invite to Alexs new pad up in Falcarragh next door to Gort a Horc where the psf president for life and fan of Ed Carson has his big pad not bad for a bloke who only worked about a few weeks in his life,while as Nuala has stated ex prisioners have been left high and dry if they dont toe the party line,bravehearts have been turned into geldings on the psf alter, nor have you to my knowledge explained or condemned the picketing of homes of republicans such as Tommy Gorman or Anthony, you may also say large numbers of people vote for psf, I,d agree but I,d say its not for psf,s policies as psf,s policies change with the wind direction but rather to stay with this peace at any price,2016 is not to far away and when it passes and Ireland remains divided will your colleagues in psf then call your president to account or as usual accept the waffle that securocrats are to blame not him.

Fionnuala You asked me the question. I gave you m...

2010-08-09T21:24:10.654+01:00

Fionnuala

You asked me the question. I gave you my answer, and I stand by it.

I didn't expect you to agree and you didn't disappoint!

Sin maith go leor.

Westie

Westie, when you said I would disagree with absolu...

2010-08-09T16:45:25.783+01:00

Westie, when you said I would disagree with absolutely everything you said you were totally right.

Rather than cover old ground I will just answer the points you made in relation to the changes Sinn Fein have brought about and the criminalisation of the struggle.

You say (paraphrasing again) The rise and rise of our culture especially the Irish language.
Are we seriously supposed to be grateful that we can practice Irish customs and Irish language in our own country?

Are we supposed to be grateful we are no longer viewed as second class citizens? (Even though Ardoyne proved we are still viewed as such)
In relation to the Belfast Agreement and the prisoners.
What about the prisoners in Maghaberry, they will waffle all sorts of shit about them, but they (Sinn Fein) will never recognise them as political prisoners.

I too attend the memorial services in the memorial gardens and I can tell you in all honesty most of them are superficial and underpinned by claptrap.

My partner is the Chair of our local memorial garden and he has never received one penny piece contribution from Sinn Fein or any other branch of the 'mainstream movement' including Coiste towards the up keep of the garden.
Instead, local events are run and money gotten from the cash strapped local people to pay for its up keep.

At the risk of sounding very cynical, why would they pay for the dead, when basically they have served their purpose?

Westie, 'Combatants join up and take the ris...

2010-08-09T15:07:05.221+01:00

Westie,

'Combatants join up and take the risks along with the consequences, local taxi drivers are just out earning a bit of money for their families!

Is this what the people of Ireland today want?'

Can you point to a time when they ever wanted it?

Fionnuala I agree with you that volunteers did no...

2010-08-08T22:29:51.828+01:00

Fionnuala

I agree with you that volunteers did not die for a Stormont based power sharing govt. And I understand why people challenge the reality of the present day against previous statements and deeds by the Provisional movement -but that is what happens and has done through historical conflicts between nations.

Times and circumstances change, and obviously Sinn Féin took the decision that the armed struggle had run it's course in terms of whether it was more damaging to the Brits or more damaging to the Movement itself to continue.

The motive for fighting was also different - for instance what do you honestly think was the primary reason why so many people joined the Army in the late sixties and then the seventies and early eighties, genuinely the reason why they did this? I think it was as much about inequality, brutality and a fight for survival as it was about removing the Brits from our land for good. The fact that those circumstances no longer prevail is one achievement in itself. I do not subscribe to the belief that the GFA was the same as the Sunningdale offer, which was brought down by Unionists who were not prepared to accept even that model.

In relation to SF achievements, I see them mainly around the equality agenda - the rise and rise of our culture in the North, especially Irish Language education, the full part that Irish Nationalist and Republicans play in our society without having to feel like second class citizens,the prisoners being released from jail as part of the GFA, the campaigns for justice for the likes of the Bloody Sunday victims, Pat Finucane and curently the Ballymurphy massacre, the transformation of the sectarian RUC through the Patton principles.

With regard to the criminalisation of the armed struggle, I attend many rememberance events and functions and have visited most of the beautiful memorial gardens and monuments that have been erected to honour Ireland's dead and I never get a sense of anything but pride and comradeship on such occasions.

I know you will disagree with most, if not all that I have written but I didn't want to leave your post unanswered.

Slán

Westie

Westie, I agree I have a problem with Sinn and the...

2010-08-06T23:50:43.356+01:00

Westie, I agree I have a problem with Sinn and their leadership, they are liars and they are hypocrites and I would hazzard a guess that a lot of people would find that a problem.

Westie, I also sgree there are a lot of committed people in Sinn Fein, the problem with that is, what are they committed to?

You suggest that, people who disagree with Sinn Fein should articulate their position.
Once upon a time Sinn Fein articulated theirs and it cetainly was not surrender, sell out and corruption.

Alternative republicans have argued that, they would like republicanism to progess and progress in a cohesive fashion to produce a viable alternative to the one we got.
Unfortunately republicanism is fragmented and strategies vary.
However, I would say the strategy that underpins many groups is a way forward based on the principles Sinn Fein departed from.

You speak about their achievements, well I would be very interested if you could name one!
Just one achievement, I once asked this of Eoin O Broin and I still await his reply.

Westie, those who vote for them are not all republicans.
Many people believe that a vote for them is in fact a vote for peace.
Others believe they will deliver in relation to investment.
Marty, must have been round the globe thrice with his begging bowl.
I also believe that they will cut the throats of the poor and anyone else unfortunate enough to be the victims of their neo-liberal economic policies.

They did criminalise the entire struggle. Do you seriously believe people died for this.
I cannot even get house insurance because in the eyes of insurance companies I am a criminal.
I bet Adams has his house insured, I bet Kelly has his portfolio of property insured.

In relation to the taxi-driver bomb, they strapped Patsy Gillispie to a bomb.
A lot of Irish people did not want that.

Can I just clarify that Marty ( with the begging bowl' is Marty Mc Guinness, not Marty of the 'Pensive Quill'

You have Jim Alister the turd talking about the sl...

2010-08-06T13:18:11.618+01:00

You have Jim Alister the turd talking about the slow slide of Ulster into a United Ireland with Mc Aleese at the RUC passing out parade and the IRA murderers now in government. Then you have the 'dissidents'. They are just mall-contents, the lot of them. What we have now in the North was on offer for the whole island before the first world war and was offered as an alternative to Home Rule. Westminster controls all things of importance. A limited budget is given for the children to play with at Stormont. There's possibly no alternative to what is going on. That's the sad part. What is even sadder is that Mi6 Mc Guinness Adams and Donaldson and the entire Mi6/SF leadership it would seem, had decided to settle for this end result many many years ago. They dumped all principles and people with what the Unionists termed at the beggining of talks about talks "Indecent haste".
Now we know what they were discussing at their wee office in Westminster, don't we? That's a rhetorical question Michaelhenry, please don't answer it ffs, heard enough about you and your crown. Get Gerry's balls out of your mouth, or Liams maybe?? A wee oul man in a Donegal bar suggested about 2 yrs ago to me that Adams was amazing that in all these years the dirty war never caught up on him, they can't get him, he said. I would love to run into the oul fella now I can tell ya!!

MichaelHenry, When you have finished with Stephen...

2010-08-06T11:37:24.071+01:00

MichaelHenry,

When you have finished with Stephen King can I recommend David Feherty's "Somewhere In Ireland A Village Is Missing An Idiot". It may provide a roadmap home.

Cant disagree with that Robert although I do think...

2010-08-06T11:09:45.060+01:00

Cant disagree with that Robert although I do think Iris,s knicker elastic has damaged Peter the punt beyond repair, I agree he was far and away more capable and devious, as a successful politican usualy is.than any from psf,although O Dowd is worth watching imo,but as you say may they all s##t hedgehogs,although again this is where we disagree I,d prefer porcupines.deep fried hedgehog is tasty!!!!!

Westie you write,I do not accept that psf have aba...

2010-08-06T10:53:43.679+01:00

Westie you write,I do not accept that psf have abandoned their ideaology or fundamental goal, nor do I believe they have abandoned or de-legitimised the armed struggle of pira.I,d advise you to read Liam,s excellent post again a cara and all of it, take your time reading it,an example of abandoning ones ideaology would in my opinion would have been when socialist minister Mc Guinness as education minister initiated pfi finance to rebuild Balmoral High school, which closed not so long after and has left the taxpayer a massive bill for years to come,although that building may now be part occupied it is a financial disaster for everyone except the devoloper who stands to make a fortune from this folly, another example is Babs Brown as health minister as a socialist how can she defend the closure of Omagh hospital because Westie she initiated that move, mind you they could claim they were only obeying orders no change there then!you state that psf/prm have not abandoned the armed struggle??can we expect that we will see large amounts of police men/women blown to bits soon by the boys in pursuit of what excatly?I can assure you taxi drivers,bus drivers,train drivers,lorry drivers,car drivers, fathers going to mass, mothers of ten,dog lovers will all be worried about that statement,as for taking the piss outa your heros they put themselves up there in the public eye they take the piss out of us with their expensive and freeloading lifestyles and holiday homes have you ever heard of spitting image and I bet you have ,did you feel annoyed when they took the piss outa the queen and Thatcher I bet you didnt a cara!!!

id say that the chaplain who baptised you interest...

2010-08-05T23:32:11.164+01:00

id say that the chaplain who baptised you interested,
raised his eye-brow when he was told your name.

words, whats wrong with words next
no crown oath here, so you say so what, not a nice republican position to take, is their a lick of sense in you,
you ask who is in charge, the people are in charge,

the british goverment are subjects,
that is their choice, that is all they and their familys are,
you say that SINN FEIN ministers are british ministers, i have noticed that argument being used before,
but your statement would mean that SINN FEIN ministers have broken the taboo of british ministers swearing alliance to the leader of the crown, which would be another first for SINN FEIN,
you can not be a british minister and also oppose the crown oath,
its the IRISH way.

those damn words interested, i more
or less said the same thing when i read the last of the dark tower series by stepen king, what that author done was beyond belief,
i'll not say, in case some-one reading this is reading the dark tower books, i said then that i would never again read stepen king,
i relented over time, and im glad i did, as under the dome and cell were first class.

It was a decent piece alright, well researched and...

2010-08-05T23:17:27.293+01:00

It was a decent piece alright, well researched and well written. As I read down, I did get a sense that it was a tad one sided - but that's fair enough, most articles are.

Fionnuala, you will never accept the Leadership, and that's your perogative, but I think you should stop insinuating that everyone who continues to support and work for Sinn Féin is nothing but a blind and brainless follower - this is simply not true. Our mutual friend Seando Moore is but one perfect example, and despite what you may think, there are many like him, if not as dedicated and committed as only he and a few can be.

I would prefer for republicans who oppose the SF strategy and political direction to articuate what they want to see happen, and how, from a 'pragmatist' point of view, they would like to see this implemented. Instead, they tend to spend most of their time throwing personal and collective insults at Adams, McGuinness, Kelly, Gildernew, Ramsey, Maskey and the manmy other public 'elected' representatives.

The facts are that most Irish Republicans in the North support this party, believe in their achievements thus far and are committed to their future. Those facts are repeatedly borne out by the electorate, including the recent election results in the North, despite the predictions to the contrary.

I do not accept that SF have abandoned their ideaology or fundamental goal. Nor do I believe they have abandoned or de-legitimised the armed struggle of the Provisional Army.

They obviously have a major problem with the legitimacy of the current armed campaign of those groups involved - I have a problem with them myself, both in terms of objectives, and in their execution. To threaten a taxi driver that they will be shot unless they drive their vehicle to its target - what is the problem with the 'volunteer' driving it him or herself? I know the provisionals carried out similar operations in the past but I felt the same about those operations then as I do about the apparent tactic that seems to be the norm nowadays. Combatants join up and take the risks along with the consequences, local taxi drivers are just out earning a bit of money for their families!

Is this what the people of Ireland today want?

Slán

Westie

robert, notice you wrote that the crown oath is di...

2010-08-05T22:35:55.494+01:00

robert, notice you wrote that the crown oath is discriminatory
like it still is now at westminister and in the scottish and welsh parliaments,
can us catholics sue then, the queen is immune from the law but her little helpers are not exempt from the law,

sunningdale and that 1982 attempt both failed because republicans were not in the mix,
no crown oath, thats a good one,
robert is saying that any-one who took the crown oath in any parliment, or in the r.u.c from 1973 to the p.s.n.i are guilty of discrimination, unless i missed something, he actually agrees with me.

watch out old hand, that the unionist dream of yours does not turn in-to a wet dream, or a nightmare.

Marty, My view of Stormont is essentially that of...

2010-08-05T21:32:12.517+01:00

Marty,

My view of Stormont is essentially that of a talking shop albeit with a substantial budget. Gerry and Marty don't concern me for two reasons - the real power still resides in Westminster and secondly the bold Peter will and has wiped the floor with the two of them. I have often thought that Haughey's description of Ahern was a perfect fit for Robinson in Unionist terms he really is, "the most skilful, the most devious, the most cunning of them all". The career politican par excellence. Saying that I hope they all s@*t hedgehogs.