Comments on The Pensive Quill: You got a problem with that?

Robert, ‘ I have heard it said that violence is ...

2010-07-18T21:53:08.400+01:00

Robert,

‘ I have heard it said that violence is the repartee
of the illiterate.’

Yet the greatest acts of violence are carried out by the most literate – governments and their cohorts.

Robert,

I never met Gerry Adams in any IRA capacity.

Marty is quite right in what he says about Wright. It is not the result of media informed opinion. There are a wide variety of ways to ascertain the roles people have played. Billy Wright was such a prominent player that obtaining information about his role is much easier than others less prominent.

Does that information amount to legal evidence that would stand up in court? In some cases if presented in court it could stand up. In other instances no. But legal knowledge is not the only form of knowledge. A legal fact can often be a real life fiction. In 1983 I was found not guilty of IRA membership – legal fact, real life fiction. OJ Simpson is a case in point.

As for my views on religion, implicit in your comment is that without religion there is a lack of morality or at least a moral code. Am I right in drawing that inference? As a person with no religious belief I would dispute that most firmly. Morally, Billy Wright was a killer of innocent Catholics. A legal verdict finding otherwise would make it no less true.

I doubt your citing of common law has much relevance to what is under discussion here – it is not a court, Billy Wright was not on trial. It is a forum where we employ forms of knowledge which are not legal based, but can be none the less real for that.

Robert, The dead – always a touchy subject and o...

2010-07-18T14:33:56.639+01:00

Robert,

The dead – always a touchy subject and often the ammunition needed by those in search of being offended. There is no easy way to manage it. Like most others I am never comfortable with it but artistic expression and free inquiry will always trump my discomfort.

Nuala,

I just found him friendly even though I had quite a few public spats with him. He was just somebody who, regardless of his political views, never gave me cause to dislike him on a personal level. It is that way with a lot of them. I was invited to the home of one last night and he was exceptionally hospitable. We debated the issues, he had criticisms to make, as had I, but it was totally free of rancour. We had another one stay over with us at the weekend and me and her went at it but it was totally friendly. I remember one of those who picketed the house stopping to offer me and the child a lift some time after it. I didn’t take it only because I was going in the opposite direction. There was no social friction between us.

Robert "Face the reality the Orange Order is...

2010-07-17T05:06:56.069+01:00

Robert

"Face the reality the Orange Order is nothing but a corrupt blight on the Protestant faith, I read the Protestant bible and confess I own an expensive version of one as the art work is beautiful but have not been able to find anything thing in it that promotes sectarianism. Maybe the Orange Order Bible says different."
Explain the promotion of sectarianism as I have failed to find it in the King James version?

Glady I will provide you the information you asked for then.

Marty, I'm going to wrap up here. btw? I have...

2010-07-16T17:07:38.458+01:00

Marty,

I'm going to wrap up here. btw?
I have a theory about that. Look forward to more of your distortions at "Reflecting On Saville", later. See you at the party!

LOL ya said it Robert or sung it mo cara,that a...

2010-07-16T16:14:25.552+01:00

LOL ya said it Robert or sung it mo cara,that about sums me up ,again to quote Popeye,Oh what am I ?some kinda barnicle on the dinghy of life?still laughing my friend loved that! have a nice day!btw Popeye was a good guy!

Marty, Good afternoon to you. Your mention of Pop...

2010-07-16T15:45:22.651+01:00

Marty,

Good afternoon to you. Your mention of Popeye is most appropriate as he, if my memory serves me correctly had a wee song that sums up your position more succinctly than anything I could draw on from academia. Marty: [singing] I yam what I yam and I yam what I yam that I yam / And I got a lotta muscle and I only gots one eye / And I'll never hurt nobodys and I'll never tell a lie / Top to me bottom and me bottom to me top / That's the way it is 'til the day that I drop, what am I? / I yam what I yam

Robert a cara Marshall Mc Luhan and all due respec...

2010-07-16T15:05:48.588+01:00

Robert a cara Marshall Mc Luhan and all due respect to the man ,is as you say a theorist, now thats not a man who deals in fact if I,m not mistaken but rather someone who theorizes! now my friend where I,m coming from and what I,m aware of is what I,see and hear and experience for myself is what forms my perception of the world around me, you say I have arbitary values ,do you mean I,m unreasonable or that my views are unsupported, again my friend these views of mine come from the university of hard knocks and the street, I may not be academicily aufait, but as Popeye says I knows what I knows!! ps. is that the guy who said walking backwards to the future,and if so was he talking about your mates in the orders!

Marty, "my opinions like our friends on this...

2010-07-16T11:38:46.371+01:00

Marty,

"my opinions like our friends on this blog are formed by what those in the media call reliable sources.."
EUREKA!! I can now understand why your opinions are invested with what communications theorist Marshall McLuhan referred to as, "artifical perceptions and arbitrary values" on many of the issues we have discussed.

Aye Robert ,but do it first!Arma potentius aequum,...

2010-07-15T12:43:18.417+01:00

Aye Robert ,but do it first!Arma potentius aequum,I for one and I know most who would visit this free and open blog,would not base their opinions on mere hearsay,nor would they diminish a persons character by repeating what we read in the newspapers,my opinions like our friends on this blog are formed by what those in the media call reliable sources,also most of our disgust is aimed primarily at those from this side of the divide i.e Adams and his cohorts in psf,and my friend as I stated at the top justice is more powerful than weapons and that is what most of us seek

Marty, "et prout vultis ut faciant vobis hom...

2010-07-15T00:28:34.295+01:00

Marty,

"et prout vultis ut faciant vobis homines et vos facite illis similiter"
`That Marty is a very bad man'. `How do you know , well I read it in the Sunday World, and anyway our Liam says that Paddy overheard Seamus and Sean talking about him so it must be true. `Quick get out of my way,someone needs to tell Brian Rowan about this!'

Marty, A beautiful little ditty - good one. Goodn...

2010-07-14T23:56:32.993+01:00

Marty,

A beautiful little ditty - good one. Goodnight until our next joist.

See Nuala see!! ,thats what ya get when ya try ta...

2010-07-14T23:35:18.103+01:00

See Nuala see!! ,thats what ya get when ya try talking to the other side they go an hit ya with Latin an all, I told ya just kick him in the nuts!!!Where the hell is Mick Hall? ya can never get a dummy tit when you need one!, I suppose Robert if we listen to the other side it is going to sound an awful lot like an echo, possibly we can be sure when we make statements about the likes of Billy Wright, although they may not stand up in a court nevertheless it doesnt make them less true,and why we can make these statements is because we have seen to many similarities on this side to be certain that a badun can spotted a mile off,and Robert, Billy Wright was a budun.mea culpa mea culpa mea maxima culpa

Fionnuala, `Other community' trying to be PC?...

2010-07-14T23:20:27.045+01:00

Fionnuala,

`Other community' trying to be PC? I heard today that the `other community' in Ardoyne think that PC refers to `paving concrete'

Robert a cara,in a week or so I hope to back in Na...

2010-07-14T23:02:55.441+01:00

Robert a cara,in a week or so I hope to back in Na h,Eileanan Siar , while I find Dundee especially the grey stonework drab and dreary, the people brighten up the place, Aberdeen is a little brighter and a busy oil centre ,but my love is open and wild spaces and no lovelier than the western isles, therefore Robert to appreciate such beauty I for one dont believe there is a bigoted bone in your body,and remember my friend ,There are only two tragedies in life,one is not getting what one wants,and the other is getting it ,your mate Oscar Wilde,and as we are in the Scotish mood a wi bit o Rabbie Burns, Inspiring bold John Barleycorn,What dangers thou canst make us scorn!wi tippenny,we fear nae evil;wi usquebae,we,ll face the devil,

Robert a social study some years back highlighted ...

2010-07-14T22:59:07.372+01:00

Robert a social study some years back highlighted the fact, that the lowest levels of literacy in Europe was in the Shankill area.

One of the reasons cited for this, was the fact they did not need to be educated to get jobs.

And according to your theory on violence, it could partly explain their eruption towards the 'other community' trying to be PC.

Anthony, `The credibility of the argument starts ...

2010-07-14T22:45:29.916+01:00

Anthony,

`The credibility of the argument starts to wane when the Billy Wright culpability is not confronted head on. A bit like the Gerry denials. In both cases we know what they were and discussion is hardly furthered by taking refuge behind legalisms'
As a self proclaimed former member of the IRA I recognise your ability to comment authoritatively on the position of Gerry Adams within that organisation and as to the actions that have been attribuated to him. When Marty throws another individual's name into the mix, in this instance Billy Wright, that position changes considerably from someone with intimate insider knowledge to someone with a media informed opinion. If you are stating that he was a Loyalist paramilitary figure then of course it would be ridiculous of me to attempt to construct a denial of that. The statement,`one of the most notorious secterian (sic) killers here i.e Billy Wright...' to be credible, surely needs to be underpinned by something more substantial than hearsay. I seek no refuge in legalisms however I would view your reference to culpability as significant. Given your views on religion I take it you are referring to legal and not moral culpability. Accordingly, `In common law legal systems, conviction of a person in absentia, that is in a trial in which they are not present to answer the charges, is held to be a violation of natural justice. Specifically, it violates the second principle of natural justice, audi alteram partem'

Marty, No need to apologise for the typo, I appr...

2010-07-14T21:47:16.769+01:00

Marty,

No need to apologise for the typo, I appreciate your good manners. I suppose you could have suffered a Fruedian slip and typed in `retard'
`Roibeard' will do me fine, particularly if I ever visit my fellow bigots on Na h'Eileanan Siar and in particular An Leodhas. I think I will pass on the advice if you don't mind - hope you are not alluding to violence Marty? I have heard it said that violence is the repartee of the illiterate. Here you go mate - have another slice of reality pie, it's on the house.

Robert a cara my advice is to keep your words soft...

2010-07-14T19:52:11.948+01:00

Robert a cara my advice is to keep your words soft and sweet, just in case you ever have to eat them

Robert,Anthony says stay with us the banter is som...

2010-07-14T16:17:10.143+01:00

Robert,Anthony says stay with us the banter is something else, kind got me thinking, why dont the loyal orders start up their own tv channel, you know like that Dave one they advertise it as the home of witty banter ,if the orders had their own channel they could maybe advertise it as the home of bitter w##kers

Marty, A sharp and witty retort. You leave me no ...

2010-07-14T15:53:18.654+01:00

Marty,

A sharp and witty retort. You leave me no option but to open my Imelda Markos walk in wardrobe of `orthopedic shoes'. With the exception of that famous quote I'm not familiar with the works of Heine but can concur with the Psalmist in this instance that, ` `the parable in the mouth of the fool is like the limb of a lame man'

Marty, have to agree Mr Mc Intyre has so much more...

2010-07-14T14:46:13.982+01:00

Marty, have to agree Mr Mc Intyre has so much more social etiquette than us.

I too remember MM early and very awkward entrance into the movement.
He was then a friend of the man who declared 'Stakeknife' would be proven totally innocent, Michael Flannagan.

I think the 'Dark' would have described these people the way he described Hartley, 'coat trailers, hangers on'
They could not have laced people like Brendan's boots, even in his worst times he was a giant in comparrison to them.

Yet, as you say Marty it paid off, they managed to hold on to the greasy pole.

A futher afterthought re the said MM ,Nuala I woul...

2010-07-14T12:56:20.277+01:00

A futher afterthought re the said MM ,Nuala I would agree Anthony would be more of an intellectual match for that man, me I just prefer to kick him in the nuts!!!

Nuala I remember that eejit running around the Ard...

2010-07-14T12:49:45.347+01:00

Nuala I remember that eejit running around the Ard Fheis many many years ago he was on a self promotional thing then as a gaelgoir, running aroud sticking stickers on peoples coffee cups with the slogan leabhair gaelic liom, not so much as an enthusiastic Irish speaker more imo as someone looking to be noticed, in those far of days the arrogance was mainly confined to the fact that he had the teanga, but as he crawled up the greasy pole he cultivated the powerful and wealthy, becoming a total mouth for Itwasntme and clinging to that wealthy chemist and property devoloper to advance his social status,and yes hon your description of him as a pompous arrogant git is as about as close as one can get a ragged trouser philanthropist he aint

Mackers, first met him almost thirty years ago and...

2010-07-13T22:57:05.798+01:00

Mackers, first met him almost thirty years ago and to be honest I had no thoughts on him on way or the other.

He was kind of on the periphery of Sinn Fein then.

A few years back I had the misfortune of having to be in his company socially and it was certainly not a joy.

Mackers, you are probably right about him and no doubt I am wrong.
However, he is not a person who's company I would ever seek out.

Honestly do not think he could ever think or deviate out side the party line.

You are more than a match for them which is probably why they don't bother you.

I thought Monty Python,s Life Of Brian was dead fu...

2010-07-13T21:50:01.126+01:00

I thought Monty Python,s Life Of Brian was dead funny Robert!Heine also said"I,ve never seen an ass who talked like a human being,but I,ve met many human beings who talked like asses!while you look at Billy Wrights culpability,could you comment on Paisley snr and co ,for sure a lot of questions still need to be asked about the role these people played in our recent dirty past!would you agree?