tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post6755641181196440599..comments2012-11-08T17:52:09.731ZAMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comBlogger76125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-34365282985699476972012-11-08T17:22:35.659Z2012-11-08T17:22:35.659ZMarty; do you write your own material? :-)Belfast Bookwormhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08788284349622223129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-20598661043015114322012-11-08T10:59:00.385Z2012-11-08T10:59:00.385ZA muslim at work said he had the whole Koran on DVD I thought it would be interesting to check it out so I asked him to burn me a copy ..thats when it all kicked of.martyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09814904389826171437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-80838784771158787462012-10-29T07:21:33.831Z2012-10-29T07:21:33.831ZNuala, <br /><br />I know. They can be draining.AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-72883452835447693392012-10-28T22:27:39.241Z2012-10-28T22:27:39.241ZMackers, <br />You took the words out of my mouth, even stuff I have here is contradictory.<br />I was dreading getting into one of those long-winded debates with you, dont have the stamina, leave that to the capable Simon or John McGirr.<br />I was never letting religion of the hook, but I never letting go of the ubiquitous tenets of patriachy, I have seen and heard too much of it in life and I have seen and heard when religion was not even in the room.<br />Fionnuala Perryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16112456307341779243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-37562935448644855972012-10-28T18:22:27.429Z2012-10-28T18:22:27.429ZNuala,<br /><br />at the same time we have this statement whcih I found on the web about two minutes ago!<br /><br /><i>Like most behaviors that are found in societies throughout the world, religion must have been present in the ancestral human population before the dispersal from Africa 50,000 years ago.</i><br /><br />So, I just don&#39;t know. For every piece of evidence to be found on the web there will be something to contradict it. <br /><br />It just seems to me that no matter what came first religion is very patriarchal and consciously so. AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-71209804870399070062012-10-28T15:37:13.407Z2012-10-28T15:37:13.407ZMackers, <br />Patriarchy was found in pre-historic hunter gather socities.<br />How it is recorded visually apart from anything else is a clue.<br />How are Caveman portrayed, Stoneage men dragging women along.<br />Aristotle who I think pre-dated organised religion preached full-blown patriachy.<br /><br />Fionnuala Perryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16112456307341779243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-62831293121138042612012-10-28T14:14:55.613Z2012-10-28T14:14:55.613ZNuala, <br /><br />what science? I have no idea but it seems strange that if religion was there from the beginning (and I don&#39;t know how it could not be given the circumstances people faced)it could be preceded by something else. Is there disputes within that science, other scientific opinions? Anthropologists might have something to say on it all but I haven&#39;t looked at it at all closely. AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-89198626315950018832012-10-28T14:12:47.308Z2012-10-28T14:12:47.308Zmackers<br /><br />just trying to do my bit for domestic bliss.larry hugheshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09837849309156970989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-72894974799288020152012-10-28T14:03:48.752Z2012-10-28T14:03:48.752ZMackers, <br />According to science there is evidence of patriachy long before religion a few thousand years actually!<br />I know the discussion is about religion, but I think the evidence points to patriachy as more dominant factor.<br /><br />Marty, <br />If I am fixated on anything it is reality.<br />Patriarchy is the biggest factor in this scenario and it is not the exclusive territory of the religious.<br />I only ever met two men in my life who I would say were totally detached from patriarchal thinking one was my Da the other was Brendan Hughes.<br /><br />Fionnuala Perryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16112456307341779243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-32511655246688282732012-10-28T12:22:24.397Z2012-10-28T12:22:24.397ZLarry,<br /><br />stop trying to bring the house down around our ears!AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-90811916643127366602012-10-28T11:13:31.789Z2012-10-28T11:13:31.789Zmackers<br /><br />God&#39;s idea was ok... the bible is full of evil women screwing up good-things. (excuse the pun)<br /><br />They just do scheming on auto-pilot.larry hugheshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09837849309156970989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-28723112041434425112012-10-28T09:50:36.722Z2012-10-28T09:50:36.722ZNuala be it either Patriarchy or Matriarchy,neither has a monopoly on evil when holding the reins of power.Maggie Thatcher claims to be a devout christian and had no qualms about murdering those conscripts on the Belgrano,Tony B Liar is now a devout catholic he is a war criminal and has made millions out of it. drop the fixation on Patriarchy your beginning to sound like those from the womens center .lets work for a totally egalitarian society free from the malignant influences of priests or imams,martyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09814904389826171437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-60502822836379691512012-10-28T09:11:59.872Z2012-10-28T09:11:59.872ZLarry,<br /><br />but she believed in god first and worshipped him. Read your bible!AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-50229295285200426872012-10-28T08:45:58.443Z2012-10-28T08:45:58.443ZPatriarchy was well cemented in before religion.<br /><br />After Eve fucked-up the garden of Eden something needed done. larry hugheshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09837849309156970989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-17901833932368171082012-10-28T06:00:37.191Z2012-10-28T06:00:37.191ZNuala<br /><br /><i>Patriarchy was well cemented in before religion.</i><br /><br />I don&#39;t really understand how this can be. If religion was there from the very start of human existence how can patriarchy have preceded it? I don&#39;t know of an era in human history where religion did not exist. If patriarchy came first did it in turn create religion? It certainly suited patriarchy.<br /><br /><i>Patriachy does not need religion it floursihes quite well where religion cannot.</i><br /><br />That would seem self evident. But I think the discussion here is that religion in general treats women as inferior. AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-43384294719664369832012-10-28T01:03:08.224+01:002012-10-28T01:03:08.224+01:00Mackers, <br />Patriarchy was well cemented in before religion.<br /><br />Patriachy does not need religion it floursihes quite well where religion cannot.<br />Fionnuala Perryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16112456307341779243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-23275844819795907762012-10-27T18:57:36.941+01:002012-10-27T18:57:36.941+01:00Belfast Bookworm has left a new comment on your post &quot;Bravo Charlie Hebdo&quot;:<br /><br />Faith might be alright if left alone but religion for the most part is the organisation of faith. And for that reason religion causes many problems. It can’t let faith alone. I always like Stephen Weinberg on the matter when he says that with or without religion good people will do good things and bad people will do bad things but to get good people to do bad things it takes religion. This is why I think it is the Catholic religion that causes much of the AIDS problem in Africa. A simple belief in god could never cause that problem, religion as an institution could. <br /><br />I never admire faith (the abandonment of reason) and an absolute belief in god. There are lots of opinions I don’t admire but can live with them so long as they are not imposed on me. People should be free to practice their religion but not on anyone else. <br />AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-14460458007611600612012-10-27T12:31:09.672+01:002012-10-27T12:31:09.672+01:00Nuala,<br /><br /><i>Patriachy and organised religion might be inseparable. But it is equally inseparable with atheism.</i><br /><br />Atheism hardly amounts to a belief system; simply a disbelief in god. There is no global system of atheism that promotes the second class status of women that is remotely comparable to organised religion. <br /><br />I have no doubt that there are many atheists who are patriarchal. <br /><br /><i>But what of the young women shot and bombed by the Brits and Americans?</i><br /><br />It is like the old ethnocentric story of news reporting – one British civilian injured in earthquake; 3000 Africans dead. <br />AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-18049837677991299522012-10-26T19:55:17.129+01:002012-10-26T19:55:17.129+01:00Nuala,<br /><br />I think religion has been around from time immemorial. People facing difficulty with the elements began to pray to them. Patriarchy is probably as old. I don’t know the stats but it would appear that way to me. <br />AMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00559413440743290550noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-33334083273356041722012-10-26T00:14:32.091+01:002012-10-26T00:14:32.091+01:00if they Did Nuala they would have to charge Bush and B liar with war crimes and that aint gonna happen anytime soon hon.martyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09814904389826171437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-2583968496180080712012-10-25T23:21:49.390+01:002012-10-25T23:21:49.390+01:00Marty,<br />Again you have taken me up wrong!<br />They don&#39;t discriminate, I was pointing out, clearly I thought, that the West was oozing sympathy and rightly so for the young woman shot by the Taliban.<br />They have less sympathy for the young people who&#39;s heads they have put bullets in.<br /><br />Science claims to have formed a very clear pattern of early societies and they were patriarchal, granted the divisions would had been based on biological factors then, but gender roles along patriarchal lines were identified.Fionnuala Perryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16112456307341779243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-74144187183915711422012-10-25T22:41:03.290+01:002012-10-25T22:41:03.290+01:00Marty; that&#39;s it settled then. <br /><br />I retract all my earlier statements. Belfast Bookwormhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08788284349622223129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-33303122101849539982012-10-25T21:21:54.368+01:002012-10-25T21:21:54.368+01:00Belfast bookworm it was definitely matriarchal,my Da said so and he should know because my ma said he was a neanderthal...martyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09814904389826171437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-71002414990782810172012-10-25T17:49:43.370+01:002012-10-25T17:49:43.370+01:00Marty it is widely believed that society during the stoneage was egalitarian. Gender differences &amp; biases and the spread of patriarchy are not thought to have taken hold of society until about 4000 years BC, thousands of years before religion and it was through changes and progress in labour and advances in agriculture and fishing that it occurred.<br /><br />Fionnuala is right. Patriarchy came first. Belfast Bookwormhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08788284349622223129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4807238897188927967.post-44943420690060690032012-10-25T16:22:46.317+01:002012-10-25T16:22:46.317+01:00A.ps Nuala I think the Stoneage was around 600.000 years ago and little is known about the structures around family life other than through artifacts such as flint tools and scratchings on bones some of the earliest stone figures were of pregnant women giving rise to the theory that the woman was the central spoke in family life.this was long before any god was thought up.martyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09814904389826171437noreply@blogger.com