Comments on The Pensive Quill: Where are The Spartans?

just seen that republican sinn féin reproduced thi...

2012-05-08T09:51:39.303+01:00

just seen that republican sinn féin reproduced this article in their paper saoirse (may-edition).

Maries,Eve,s and Kate,s ex pows letter will be pub...

2012-05-03T16:36:18.262+01:00

Maries,Eve,s and Kate,s ex pows letter will be published on Saturday now in the Irish News,seemingly there is a deluge of letters about the Bradyboy,hope the legion of Mary havent been mobilised....

Our Nuala has a letter published in todays Irish N...

2012-05-03T10:35:08.512+01:00

Our Nuala has a letter published in todays Irish News, Tomorrow Marie and another two ex pows will have their letter published.

Hugh and I have discussed the Irish News Ad and re...

2012-05-02T20:22:37.955+01:00

Hugh and I have discussed the Irish News Ad and realise that as well as finding the money to pay for such an Ad the big problem is getting names in different areas, getting them to a central source then sending them altogether to the Irish News.

Not only that if the Irish News carries the Ad on a day when it's not widely read then all that effort might achieve very little.

To get round this we thought of an idea that wouldn't cost a penny and wouldn't take so much effort but which could achieve greater return.

In each area, for example Derry, we draw up a very short letter demanding that the British Government resolves the issues regarding Marian, Gerry, Martin and Maghaberry immediately.

Below it we put the names of all former prisoners we have collected as signatories in that area.

Then we send it to our local papers.

Other areas, Belfast, Strabane, Newry etc do likewise and we coordinate it so that all signed letters are carried in the one week.

When this happens we get each area to count the names signed in each letter, and put out a single letter the following week to each of the papers stating that ex-number of former prisoners across the country have signed letters demanding immediate action.

Any thoughts on this?

Hugh Brady and myself have drafted a letter which ...

2012-05-02T20:03:55.473+01:00

Hugh Brady and myself have drafted a letter which we are sending to as many papers as we can. It is hopefully the first stage is getting something moving.

It is calling on all former Republican prisoners to support Marian, Gerry and Martin as well as the protesting prisoners in Maghaberry.

The theme of the letter is...

'This is not about who of us is right or wrong, it is about righting a wrong.'

I'm sending it to the Derry Journal, Derry News, Irish News, ATown News, Strabane Chronicle and the Newry Democrat so far.

More Nationalist papers are needed...

Organised Rage/Mick, While I think that may be a ...

2012-05-02T11:11:27.685+01:00

Organised Rage/Mick,

While I think that may be a factor in why some do not get involved I am of a view that there are wider reasons. The ex-prisoners in SF will be pilloried within the party if they show any independent sign of support for the prisoners. I believe this was the experience of Brian Halpin in Dublin when he was trying to raise support for Gerry McGeough. I believe Brian actually wrote about this somewhere. The issue is many ways exposes the failure of SF in terms of what it negotiated. And it is reluctant to loosen the reins too much.

I think the banner did not help in terms of what you said ‘Never, never publicly blame those whose support you need for not rushing to the colours.’But there does seem to be a consensus emerging that the banner incident should be allowed to fade.

I do believe many former prisoners and blanketmen would sign a letter to the press, just as they did to express their opposition to policing in 2007.

I also feel your comparison with the British Left has much to be said for it. The fractiousness is said to be serious. Marx once said about socialism that there is no socialism when the sects get a hold of it. Republicanism at the minute is divided and seemingly eager to remain as such. In some ways this explains the frustration of some republicans who are burnt out with meetings and arguments and want to see decisions. I don’t envy their task.

Nor can we rule out the apprehensions that many ex prisoners seem to harbour about the ongoing armed activity. There is a view out there that to become involved in prisoner support campaigns will be used by the groups some of the prisoners are affiliated with to boost their fortunes. While I reject that as a valid reason for withholding support from prisoners I cannot deny that the sentiment exists.

A full page add in the Irish News is £4200+vat,hal...

2012-04-29T20:25:51.014+01:00

A full page add in the Irish News is £4200+vat,half page £2200+vat quarter page £1600+vat these prices were quoted to Marie and other ex-pows when they left in a letter on Thurs

With respect it is pretty clear why some former pr...

2012-04-29T07:57:06.706+01:00

With respect it is pretty clear why some former prisoners have not yet got behind this campaign en masse. Marian's imprisonment was designed to achieve just this, it was a warning by the British government what might happen to republicans who move beyond their carefully set status quo.

As AM has already said most prisoners have moved on with their lives, not sure how many are still politically active but I doubt it is much different to the general population.

People wish to join a campaign which is on the rise, is actually going to achieve something. If it fails to gain support it is because it is not striking the right cord. Never, never publicly blame those whose support you need for not rushing to the colours, they are more likely to say fuck you and slam their door, than look to their own responsibility.

Besides, surely most POWs have already given the best part of their lives for republicanism and they know it, they are not going to be bullied or shamed into going the extra mile, they need to be coaxed and gently encouraged.

If it gets enough signatures, from a broad section of the Irish community an open letter in the press is a good thing. One from former POWs alone is something different and whilst it may gain some support, I would guess most of them already support Marian, but only the most committed, brave or foolhardy will sign the letter at this stage.

For this just campaign to move forward it must move beyond the republican camp, to your credit you are beginning to achieve this, this was always going to be a slow burner.

Sorry for speaking bluntly but I have witnessed years of small left wing groups over here, looking to build support amongst their own constituency and in the process failing to turn outward, and when they get nowhere blaming each other for their own failure to connect with the masses.

Comradely regards

Mick

I have since been told that the origin of the Blan...

2012-04-28T18:41:12.347+01:00

I have since been told that the origin of the Blanketmen/Spartans analogy came from a speech given by Tommy McKearney in H3 just prior to him embarking on the 1980 hunger strike. I haven't spoken with Tommy yet to confirm

I have a different view of the Derry banner but no...

2012-04-28T17:26:32.637+01:00

I have a different view of the Derry banner but no matter. If Dixie's article helps to bring a little focus to awkward questions then it is worthwhile. There are several issues which have not received a proper airing for different reasons. All these matters are of interest to republicans and human rights activists.

I don't want to rehash over the whole banner i...

2012-04-28T16:24:56.905+01:00

I don't want to rehash over the whole banner issue - I agree with dixie that people need to move on from that - I understand the issues brought forward and maybe a better worded question would help ?? There does need to be a c ampaign slogan something that can be repeated a soundbite that maybe the media and others will pick up on .... i'm not totally sure what the phrase?terminology would be at this very point in time.
I have been trying to get irish/american organisations and individuals on board with Marian's campaign ... it is somewhat disjointed and slightly problematic but surely we can get a few dollars together for an advert .... I really think that is a great idea - I would print the advert out on a big format and paste it everywhere ..... too much time has passed for inaction ... as Alec stated rightly it has been more than two years since those currently in prisons were denied the implementation of the "august agreement" .... regardless of political affiliation how can any human being not show some compassion and humanity for those unjustly imprisoned??

Bernadette was right in her call to educate agitate and organise .... have people really forgotten how to do that ? There's no way everyone has forgotten as I am significantly younger than the men and women of the "spartan" era and I was educated well how to organise and agitate :)
Keep fighting !!

Alec, it was the Dixie article that drew much att...

2012-04-28T14:13:14.007+01:00

Alec,

it was the Dixie article that drew much attention to the banner and I found it a very good piece, one that invites strategic thinking rather than mere recrimination. I guess that is why it is the most read article all month even though it is only up a couple of days.

Liam Campbell's position is subject to a regime of silence. There is virtually no one mentioning it. There are other prisoners in very difficult circumstances which we discussed offline but again a regime of silence.

Mackers, I accept that the banner in Derry had ...

2012-04-28T12:18:12.641+01:00

Mackers,

I accept that the banner in Derry had a point to it. However, I think the sentiment was wholly understandable in the context of what is occurring inside the prisons. But as Dixie said, enough about the banner. Let's get on with the important work of exposing these injustices and building support for Marian, Martin, Gerry and the protesting prisoners. Another issue is the possible impending extradition of Liam Campbell to a sub standard foreign prison in the arsehole of nowhere. All of these issue are deserving of our support if only on a purely humanitarian basis.

Alec, I imagine that a generic banner is meant to...

2012-04-28T09:54:56.056+01:00

Alec,

I imagine that a generic banner is meant to be something that everybody can stand behind and does not alienate. There is a certain logic to that. This is why I feel the thinking behind the Spartan banner was a liability. It went against the grain of what I think you mean when you talk of generic banners.

Dixie, the Family and Friends has been campaignin...

2012-04-28T03:26:39.364+01:00

Dixie,

the Family and Friends has been campaigning for almost two years now using generic banners and posters. The logic behind this was simply that it would make it easier for a larger number of people to attend protests without being associated with political groupings. It has not been easy and progress is painfully slow. I welcome fresh ideas.

A further point. I believe that if the various gro...

2012-04-27T20:39:08.126+01:00

A further point. I believe that if the various groups, 32CSM, IRSP, Eirigi, RNU,RSF etc made the effect we could get effective rallies off the ground.

It would need the willingness of these groups to demonstrate under the one banner and as a united force.

These groups would need to push to get as many of their members as possible as well as their families out and to wherever the rally might be.

We saw this year bigger attendances at Easter commemorations for various groups. Why can't this happen for something that should and could unite Republicans?

I've made the point often that party political banners should be replaced by banners supporting the prisoners and demanding an end to injustice only. If this would happen I believe we can get more onto the streets.

Most of all we need new ideas...

I met with Hugh Brady today regarding the ad. We d...

2012-04-27T19:35:24.497+01:00

I met with Hugh Brady today regarding the ad. We discussed various aspects. IE how do we pay for it as it would likely cost thousands. Do we ask those signing to pay a £1 or as much as a £5 etc each?

Also we discussed getting other areas onboard. Ie Belfast etc.

We also discussed approaching all ex-prisoners no matter what their political opinion today.

And we agreed that besides Marian we should include the prison struggle still ongoing in Maghaberry, Martin Corey and Gerry McGeough and demand that all these issues are resolved soon.

The banner is forgotten about so lets hear no more on it.

Any help would be great and I have already asked several former prisoners for their help and they have agreed.

Hugh will get a quote from the Irish News for the ad.

Lets just keep this to what we can do and constructive advice from here on.

Alec, people choose their causes. There isn't...

2012-04-27T19:01:51.951+01:00

Alec,

people choose their causes. There isn't much we can do about it. It is frustrating when an issue matters to us but not so much to others. I know all about that. But frustration never solved one problem for on that front and only fed despondency. Ex prisoners are like most other people in society. They move on. The real issue is when they become what they once opposed, when they seem to side with repressive state apparatuses. And we all have to allow for human frailty. All of us have it

Excuse the typos.

2012-04-27T18:53:16.030+01:00

Excuse the typos.

As I siad, Mackers. I'm beyond making excuses...

2012-04-27T18:47:59.483+01:00

As I siad, Mackers.

I'm beyond making excuses for people who should know better. I have spent the best part of two years trying to convince, coax, cajole republicans of all hues to support the just and reasonable demands of the prisoners. We created a generic platform so as to appeal to the largest number without success. I personally feel there is more cause to be critical than there is to be understa
nding of the multitude of excuses.

Alec, there is a whole range of injustices not be...

2012-04-27T18:37:30.235+01:00

Alec,

there is a whole range of injustices not being opposed today. People have a finite resource of energy and commitment and can't throw it into every cause going. Many people have just drifted away and take no interest for whatever reason. We can't hold them to our causes for ever and a day. We just have to work with what we have. We will persuade more people into supporting Marian than we will embarrass into supporting her

"adversarial" We are sick pussy footing...

2012-04-27T18:35:26.428+01:00

"adversarial"

We are sick pussy footing the ex prisoners and political parties. Marian Price did not go into jail yesterday. How long does it take to make up one's mind on such matters? Either her imprisonment is a blatant injustice or it is not. I think sometimes people have to come down of their high horses in order to get their hands dirty in the real world.

People need to get over the banner. The families a...

2012-04-27T18:26:44.131+01:00

People need to get over the banner. The families and supporters of political prisoners are equally entitled to express their anger at the lack of support coming from certain quarters. Even if the banner was a tad insensitive towards a certain group of former prisoners - I'm still not convinced it was designed to be so - it does not excuse their failure to oppose present injustice. And if this banner helps to focus debate on the reasons why ex prisoners, bar the few, are not to be seen on the streets then it has severed some purpose.

Nuala, for example, 'where are the rest of th...

2012-04-27T18:21:08.582+01:00

Nuala,

for example, 'where are the rest of the able bodied Spartans?'

But I think it was better left out whether more specific or not. It was too adversarial at a juncture when something else would have better served the purpose.

Alec, I doubt if more support is going to follow ...

2012-04-27T18:15:47.795+01:00

Alec,

I doubt if more support is going to follow the tone of that banner. People might have valid reasons for not supporting this or that cause and may not even share our views on it. I know for sure had I not supported the Marian cause that banner would not lead me to supporting it.