Comments on The Pensive Quill: From Civil Rights to Republican Wrongs

Kev O'Higgins, The last work on Just War I re...

2013-08-18T08:40:27.439+01:00

Kev O'Higgins,

The last work on Just War I read was Michael Waltzer. It was his 77 version and it has since been updated, although I only read it in the last couple of years. I think you provided a very useful summary of the main elements of the Just War position.

I think the physical force tradition has always been far removed from any concept of Just War. I think it seeks out reasons for war rather than sits down and takes stock of the strategic circumstances.

My apologies for typing the wrong name regarding t...

2013-08-15T23:57:45.907+01:00

My apologies for typing the wrong name regarding the shooting and grenade throwing at milltown whilst we were laying to rest three assassinated volunteers by the SAS in Gibraltar Ordered by the late witch Maggie Hatchet. I should have Typed "Michael Stone", not "Murphy"
As I was typing, I was thinking of a Previous post from Daniel, and Fiddo jumped into my mind regarding the spelling errors etc which I replied to.

Great piece Anthony: After the Enniskillen Bomb ...

2013-08-15T22:28:25.523+01:00

Great piece Anthony:

After the Enniskillen Bomb , I felt so disheartened , and , that's the truth , But I then started to remember when we were laying to rest The assassinated Gibraltar 3 , Murphy came on the scene and started lobbing 36mills grenades and firing at the same time , I was so full of hatred I couldn't wait to get my hands on him, I just wanted to pull the pin out of one of his grenades and stick it in his mouth, alas that was not to be.

As for the Omagh Bombing, The British MI5 let that one through. I have always thought , Why?. Keeping an agent safe!. I was disgusted with that bomb, normal people going about there everyday shopping and then wiped of the face of this Earth, Those maimed for life, both physically and mentally, an atrocity which could have and should have been stopped, But , It should never have been prepared in the first place, No logic in placing it there , nothing to achieve and , neither of those two bombs was done in my name. The answers the families want lies within the sleazy corridors of whitehall.

Anthony, A thought provoking piece. I have long ...

2013-08-15T21:55:36.957+01:00

Anthony,

A thought provoking piece.

I have long turned to an almost Aquinasistic or Salamancan (not sure of either of those are real words) approach to support for any armed struggle despite my own agnosticism.

The Salamancan reasoning seems to resonant in some of your views above.

As my own views are hard to express with ease I hope you'll permit me to lift a section from the ever unreliable wikipedia on the School of Salmanca theories on 'Just War':

Given that war is one of the worst evils suffered by mankind, the adherents of the School reasoned that it ought to be resorted to only when it was necessary in order to prevent an even greater evil. A diplomatic agreement is preferable, even for the more powerful party, before a war is started.

Examples of "just war" are:

In self-defense, as long as there is a reasonable possibility of success. If failure is a foregone conclusion, then it is just a wasteful spilling of blood.

Preventive war against a tyrant who is about to attack.

War to punish a guilty enemy.

A war is not legitimate or illegitimate simply based on its original motivation: it must comply with a series of additional requirements:

It is necessary that the response be commensurate to the evil; use of more violence than is strictly necessary would constitute an unjust war.

Governing authorities declare war, but their decision is not sufficient cause to begin a war. If the people oppose a war, then it is illegitimate. The people have a right to depose a government that is waging, or is about to wage, an unjust war.

Once war has begun, there remain moral limits to action. For example, one may not attack innocents or kill hostages.

It is obligatory to take advantage of all options for dialogue and negotiations before undertaking a war; war is only legitimate as a last resort.

Under this doctrine, expansionist wars, wars of pillage, wars to convert infidels or pagans, and wars for glory are all inherently unjust.

For me the main obstacle for physical force republicans now as previously is the morality of waging war when their is no chance of success.

Though that moral basis was a penny that came a dropping slowly personally. For some that ceased arm struggle morality was never a factor in their calculations before or since. I hold little hope that those currently supporting an armed option will reflect on such basics as the moral legitimacy for their actions.

Thoughtful words Anthony. Given the suffering endu...

2013-08-15T21:45:41.244+01:00

Thoughtful words Anthony. Given the suffering endured by so many as a result of the conflict it's imperative that violence is never used for any purpose now other than self-defence and even then as a last resort. There are other avenues available to progress our struggle and it is these we must seek to develop, to nurture, to promote. Elitist insurgency is far too easily penetrated by the British and manipulated to the point of failure, we have to learn the lessons and your article helps us to do that. A humbling article, fair play to you

Just finished reading the book by Marianne Elliott...

2013-08-15T19:42:35.956+01:00

Just finished reading the book by Marianne Elliott, When God took sides. The book really did improve my understanding of Religion in Ireland whether Protestant or Catholic, but more importantly how the both sides viewed, perceived each other.

I am no historian, by any stretch of the imagination, but she gives a great run up to where were are now and how the hell we got there. She doesn't take a side in it either.

The main conclusions are sectarianism whether protestant or catholic are viewed on the basis of how each of the differing communities are prospering and advancing.

Perception is key to all this. I walked away with the view that physical force republicianism or loyalism, has more than the potential to become paramount again in my lifetime. She also concludes that the only winners in the whole scenarios from 1600 to present were the middle class elites ie protestants. The new emerging "castle catholics" was also discussed and how the working class protestant loyalist has the potential to revert to violent norm in the future with the perceived gains of this catholic GAA loving, gaelic speaking, county loving university educated youth.

Whether it is right or wrong physical force militancy for defence or attack of ones community, in whoever's view, unless there is a serious stance on anti sectarianism, I get the impression we could all be back to where we were 1970's style in 10-15years.

Here is her link.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/When-God-Took-Sides-Unfinished/dp/0199206937