Comments on The Pensive Quill: Strange Places, Questionable People

Organised Rage, I have no settled position in my m...

2013-04-15T08:56:21.604+01:00

Organised Rage, I have no settled position in my mind as to who is the worst, the AOI or the straightforward tout. But I can see why you think the AOI is much worse.

Albert may have spoken about the Big Liar in the derogatory manner that he did because that was a traditional attitude towards men who had a political bent. But those who fought alongside him in the armed struggle thought he was the epitome of revolutionary politics. Brendan is on record as saying he didn’t feel the Big Liar would lie. He actually considered the possibility that he must have resigned from the army and was therefore able to make these statements about never having been in the IRA.

I don’t think he shafted the hunger strikers for the ‘good of the movement’. The movement is for the good of him. They were shafted to further his ambitions to which the movement is an instrument.

The honour of the corp has been a seriously debilitating factor which as you point out has worked against any radicalisation.

jobseekers disguised as rebels

2013-04-08T13:12:58.943+01:00

jobseekers disguised as rebels

Anthony on the scary theme, how about FREDDIE IN R...

2013-04-08T10:53:26.322+01:00

Anthony on the scary theme, how about FREDDIE IN RETURN TO NIGHTMARE IN SEVASTOPOL ST...
Mick good point a cara,I for one agree AOI were far more efficient than the informers, though these had the crucial role of helping these agents in focusing minds in the direction they wanted them.

AM Just to be clear I never said it is important ...

2013-04-08T10:12:04.076+01:00

AM

Just to be clear I never said it is important not to see the agent of influence on a par with a tout.

What I wrote was 'Agents of influence are something different'

And I stand by that completely [I would add in the long run they are far more dangerous than touts] That is why security services spend a great deal of time cultivating them and mainly left the local and military intel/police to handle the lower level touts.

Donaldson seems to have started out as a tout and morphed into a hybrid of the two.

To my mind Adams behavior has been consistent throughout most of his career,why else would Albert Price have spoken about him in a derogatory manner way back in the 1970s?

Could other republicans also have had the measure of him back then but because his leadership 'qualities' were promoting the same policies as their own they went along with him. Lies and all.

Is anyone who knows him well really shocked he put what 'he' regarded as the good of the movement above the deaths of hunger strikers?

It's what such people do

As to his politics he has always had the characteristics of a right-wing social democrat who ebbs and flows with the prevailing political wind.

It gives me no pleasure to say it but in hindsight acquiescing to lies became a way of life within the PRM and not only those in the Adams camp were at it.

Some of his most vocal opponents still could not bring themselves to tell the truth over how the first hunger strike ended into the late 1990s. What useful purpose could that serve beyond defending the honor of the Corp. Something Adams has been very astute at manipulating.

Larry, the Walking Fed?

2013-04-08T09:02:26.158+01:00

Larry,

the Walking Fed?

Mackers Like I said, they understand each other ...

2013-04-08T08:49:05.624+01:00

Mackers

Like I said, they understand each other and cover the collective back.

Shouting about Pat Finucane is just them feedng electorally off another corpse.

They should be in a zombie movie.

Him walking away was less the problem than the fac...

2013-04-08T08:30:00.738+01:00

Him walking away was less the problem than the fact that he was covered for. There was no longer a war on so he was always going to be able to walk away or least should have been able to walk away. Fortunes of war - they go up with the ladders and down with the snakes.

Here was a British agent working to bring republicanism to its knees and people went to bat at the crease to conceal the fact. And then shout 'cover up' at the Brits over Pat Finucane.

Marty: As you know I have stated several times , ...

2013-04-08T00:45:59.608+01:00

Marty:

As you know I have stated several times , Re Premature Explosions , I have no doubt whatsoever that those bombs were doctored , your good friend, whom her late brother was a very good mate, died in one of those instances, that made me adamant to look into every aspect of premature explosions. I will agree some were haphazardly thrown together at the beginning. To me, the timers were doctored. Such a sad lot, volunteers did not have a clue when they went to plant them. We just have to follow the chain of events to the bomb maker, then, the distributor , to the operative to plant the said device!. Devious deeds by agents high up in the PIRA Echelon.

Anthony: All the more reason to be gobsmacked ...

2013-04-08T00:22:21.312+01:00
Anthony:

All the more reason to be gobsmacked he was permitted to walk away. Even returning to Belfast the odd time seemingly. As i say, an unspoken acceptance from SF. They all understand each-other.

Are not all MONEY LAUNDERING BANK MANAGERS THE SAME!.

There is a lot of debate here in Derry among the o...

2013-04-07T23:42:45.911+01:00
There is a lot of debate here in Derry among the older hands whenever we get together in regards to Marty and was he one.

1. Many of us can't get round the fact that Marty despite being a major player in PIRA managed to avoid jail here in the North.

I know of 3 occasions when he was on British TV in 1972 speaking on behalf of PIRA, one being the famous photo of him sitting at the end of the table with the IRA leadership.

Yet while young and old were being interned he never was. Nor did any of the supergrasses put him away yet he still remained in Derry.

Also there is the point often spoken of that large questions hung over many put into positions of command by Marty in Derry and that includes not just Franco Hegarty.

One was a person he made OC who held IRA meetings in pubs with the drink flowing. Not only that the same person couldn't run if he had two legs.

Marty, the 6/7th March '23 and the 5th July &...

2013-04-07T22:34:26.936+01:00
Marty,

the 6/7th March '23 and the 5th July '81 - on a par.

Has there ever been a dirtier deed in the history ...

2013-04-07T20:57:27.702+01:00
Has there ever been a dirtier deed in the history of republicanism,Ballyseedy was barbaric,the Shankill rd bombing was suspicious,as were many operations that went fatally wrong during that time, but to allow six of the bravest of the brave to die in such a manner,then as you say a cara there is not much lower that those scum could sink,

Marty, if we ever have doubts what these people a...

2013-04-07T19:48:34.633+01:00
Marty,

if we ever have doubts what these people are capable of we need only think of the trap they laid for the hunger strikers. Seriously, has there ever been a lower point reached in our republican history than that?

I said long ago one of the biggest crimes in th...

2013-04-07T19:16:49.929+01:00
I said long ago one of the biggest crimes in the history of the conflict was that the Provisional leadership were lying through their teeth to the activists and volunteers who basically were on the front line "coal face" situation, war.

James, as an outsider I don't think everyone (at the first hurdel) within the PRM leadership lied. Certain people on the board of directors did, the rest (most) fell into line ( that's what soldiers do).

Powerful stuff Anthony,does it ever seem to you li...

2013-04-07T18:37:39.628+01:00
Powerful stuff Anthony,does it ever seem to you like something out of a deep dark thriller you are reviewing or just a fucking nightmare.

AM How was the activist/volunteer on the ground to...

2013-04-07T18:34:12.965+01:00
AM
How was the activist/volunteer on the ground to tell the difference when the leadership was pushing the peace process?

The answer is simple that had not a chance of knowing. It probably could described as "a need to know basis" and the leadership choozen few needed to know while the rank and file simply did not.

I said long ago one of the biggest crimes in the history of the conflict was that the Provisional leadership were lying through their teeth to the activists and volunteers who basically were on the front line "coal face" situation, war.

It certainly took bottle, or they believed they could manage any given hurdle/situation through various methods of influence and control. I remember reading the opening quotes of one of Adams books, one in which he likes to use quite frequent by the way "If you are not strong, you better be cunning". He certainly was the man for the cunning job, no mistake about that.

Sure they are still doing it, ie in the North they more resemble the republican party of the USA, while in the free state they are presented as a party on the left. They are a populace nationalist party. That's the difficulty with republicanism, everyone has a take on it. It is a little like religion, there are many true versions all claiming to be the only one, dissent and you are descent to hell rhetoric. SF in my humble opinion want republicanism to become like the orange order, each with its distinctive lodge, location, flag, band and we all walk in line to their drum beat as they lead us out.

Bearing in mind with no notion of change to the status quo of goverence, power, privilege. I could be wrong? If so I am not that narcissistic to stand corrected.

It's as much as Jack told me. I didn't...

2013-04-07T18:25:07.471+01:00

It's as much as Jack told me. I didn't get the impression he was holding anything back although he might have been.

That's good enough for me. Part (or a big part) about provisional Irish republicanism is, if I was home, Gerry Kelly would be my MLA and coming from Ardoyne, I'd be expected to give him my vote...

Knowing what I know today...It wouldn't happen (I've never voted in my life for anything). It's partly (probably mainly) of the contradictions within SF/PRF.

I doubt a rainbow table would have been the type o...

2013-04-07T17:29:56.310+01:00
I doubt a rainbow table would have been the type of thing he required. Simple local knowledge which he may not have been not too interested in acquiring, going instead for the general position.

A senior republican activist from the day might easily have worked it our from deduction. The code would simply have been a name for the agent. Those meeting the agent on a daily basis were the who's who of the IRA. So any of them with access to the notes would easily have worked it out.

It's as much as Jack told me. I didn't get the impression he was holding anything back although he might have been.

He had access to the notes but could not deciph...

2013-04-07T17:03:55.178+01:00
He had access to the notes but could not decipher the codenames

Why didn't he try a decent set of rainbow tables and brute force them?

Marty, Scap made an exit ok but I think the most ...

2013-04-07T15:18:22.063+01:00
Marty,

Scap made an exit ok but I think the most was made of his outing by the leadership who after the initial obligatory lies died their usual death, benefitted from a deliberately primed belief settling down that Scap was the main agent. It would be foolish to believe that. When Brian Rowan announced at a West Belfast discussion a few years back that the senior agent in the Provos was still at large it was interesting to see the challenge go in that the Brits would say that wouldn't they. Few fell for that seeing it as another attempt to deflect.

The late Jack Holland had quite an insight into the extent of the penetration. He had access to the notes but could not decipher the codenames. But he got enough to know just how deeply riddled it was. And of course they tried to rubbish him as well.

Marty All the more reason to be gobsmacked he was...

2013-04-07T15:17:00.242+01:00
Marty

All the more reason to be gobsmacked he was permitted to walk away. Even returning to Belfast the odd time seemingly. As i say, an unspoken acceptance from SF. They all understand each-other.

mackers Donaldson was also deliberately exposed i...

2013-04-07T15:14:10.261+01:00
mackers

Donaldson was also deliberately exposed in a time of prolongued peace. So he was hardly irreplaceable. If 'numero trez' is expendable what does it tell you about one and two? lmao. Like I said...SF....good fer a larf.

James, while it would have been useful from a Bri...

2013-04-07T15:09:37.747+01:00
James,

while it would have been useful from a Brit point of view to have had them as agents, it was not a strategic urgency given that they were taking the Provos to the cul de sac in which they are now in. I think what the Brits needed was the opposition to the Adams/McGuinness line weakened. This woule be easier aided by a tier of AOIs recruited to ensure the grassroots were influenced in a way that the Brits wanted them influenced. Denis Donaldson seemed to fit this brilliantly. He was an agent of the Brits and an agent of the peace process. How was the activist/volunteer on the ground to tell the difference when the leadership was pushing the peace process?

That pic of Donaldson was that mans ticket to the ...

2013-04-07T15:02:11.189+01:00
That pic of Donaldson was that mans ticket to the top a cara,other than that Larry I wouldnt disagree with anything you say,we have already acknowledged that the brits played the prm the way I like to play a well hooked trout.its a pity Scap got away,but then the man was untouchable with the dirt he holds.

I do not believe Adams or McGuinness were agents. ...

2013-04-07T14:48:10.915+01:00
I do not believe Adams or McGuinness were agents. I do believe it was simply a case of animal farm on their part. They believe they are playing smart. Their strategy simply has became lets breed them into an all Ireland and acquire all the power,grace and status of noble peace making statesmen whilst securing the priviledge of OURS,as we skip merely along unchallenged. Anyone that challenges us is against the "peace process" Very powerful emotive wording. Einstein was not needed for this for this strategy,still no excuse for the suffering and the betrayal of the long war. Which is was, a simply betrayal of the long war strategy. Leadership are supposed to formulate, plan, and implement strategy. Or maybe they realised they were wrong and wanted to cut its loses and sell it as a compromise. One thing is for sure, Adams et al believes they delivered peace and saved Irish lives. In this mindset, nullifies the score for all the people sent to the graveyard on their command. Narcissistic, psychopathic leadership. If you look at the mannerisms of SF speaking, they have been sponsored in "facilitation training" and taught how to speak with their hands making positive, emotive gestures. Now, you could acquire these techniques from any management consultant, PR guru. However, I have a wee assumption that the agents of influence particularly from the CIA point of view has played a long steady hand in the shaping of their short, mid, long term political ambitions and they have the game rigged, the table is slanted for them to work away. That's life I suppose. Strange places, Questionable people...