Comments on The Pensive Quill: Donegal Diversion: Church Men At Rape

Marty, many priests have stood with the poor over...

2012-07-05T13:14:26.911+01:00

Marty,

many priests have stood with the poor over the centuries but not the parcel of bastards in Spain who backed the fascists. I am thinking of the people in Latin America who were abandoned by the Vatican.

Franco was not particularly devout but he knew the Church was a valuable ally in any campaign to extablish fascism. Beevor wrote a great book on it which I read a year or two ago.

The call came from Maynooth"support the facis...

2012-07-05T12:56:33.541+01:00

The call came from Maynooth"support the facists".
The men of cloth had failed yet again.
When the bishops blessed the blueshirts in Dun Laoghaire.
As they sailed beneath the swastika to Spain...
They didnt kill enough of them!

John ‘Why would any of the leaders of 1916 want t...

2012-07-05T12:32:54.315+01:00

John

‘Why would any of the leaders of 1916 want to fight to eradicate the Catholic religion in Spain?’

The Spanish Civil War was not about the eradication of the Catholic religion is Spain. While certainly some of those who went to war wanted rid of the clergy because of the very repressive role played by the Church in keeping people downtrodden, the war was much wider than that.

‘Almost 10,000 bishops, monks, priests, and nuns were ruthlessly slaughtered by internationalists inspired by a hatred of the Spanish nation and the Catholic religion.’

The figures have changed so much. It has veered from 20,000 down to 7,000. And it never includes those clerics killed by the fascists for resisting Franco, a source of irritation for some Catholic intellectuals who think the Church needs to fess up to its involvement in bringing the fascists to power in Spain.

‘When they had killed them all they dug up the remains out of convent graveyards to desecrate them further.‘

I think there was a the unpardonable case of one anarchist who danced with the corpse of a nun. But the Church has been caught out lying so often in relation to that era ...

‘I do not believe that any of those who gave their lives for God and country would support those who opposed both in Spain.’

Republicans who fought on the anti-treaty side went to Spain as part of the International Brigade and fought against pro treaty figures such as O’Duffy on the fascist side.

‘I am not aware of any condemnation of IRA actions from the Pope down. Maybe you could enlighten me. (Nothing after Pope Pius XII will be relevant to me, as they are of disputed authority).’

What would be the point of enlightening you if your cherry pick your popes?

‘The use of force is not precluded in the face of unjust aggression.’

Who defines aggression as unjust? We can’t live our lives according to you. From whom do we get moral clarity and guidance?

It all hinges on legitimacy. If the Army has a claim to legitimacy, then its use of force can be right. If it has no claim to legitimacy, it would be harder to establish a basis on which it should operate.’

And the Continuity IRA is I presume the legitimate army of Ireland?

‘a Nation has the right to defend itself against aggressors.'

But not the aggressors within it?

‘If it is true that the Church held that the Dublin Government was legitimate ... It has certainly not recognised Britain's right over the Six Counties.’

It has. Once it accepted the consent principle ...

‘the Church, in her wisdom ...'

invented Limbo. FFS

‘Rarely does it engage its authority on the legitimacy of a given State.’

Does it have embassies in states that it does not regard as legitimate?
.
‘Suicide is in breach of the Fifth Commandment. Therefore the people of Ireland do not have the right for a majority decision of National suicide.’

More religious rubbish.

‘I am not in the slightest attracted to Spanish fascists.’

You seem enthralled by them. Fascist movements attract fascistic personalties.
‘the likes of La Pasionaria, whipped up into such hysteria that she killed a priest through biting into his jugular vein.’
There was much wrong with her attitude but this is the first time I have been hit with this. Are you sure this is not one of the many myths pedalled by the fascists?

Are you aware that after Guernica was bombed one of the Church’s professors of theology in Spain denied that the Nazis were operating in Spain?

Can one apply for excommunication,or how much doe...

2012-06-09T22:28:44.619+01:00

Can one apply for excommunication,or how much does it cost?

From Time Magazine may 1938 In recent months the ...

2012-06-09T21:57:45.985+01:00

From Time Magazine may 1938

In recent months the Irish Republican Army has terrorized England with many a bombing. Last week the Roman Catholic hierarchy of England and Wales unlimbered its biggest gun against the I.R. A.—threat of excommunication. In a statement read in all Catholic churches in Britain, the hierarchy declared: "Among the causes of the present unrest are workings of certain secret societies. The church sternly condemns all societies which plot against the church or state. They are guilty of crime against human society. Members of such secret societies incur excommunication."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,761165,00.html#ixzz1xKcwjm2I

AM, ‘Why would Connolly want to fight alongside Na...

2012-05-21T10:53:08.455+01:00

AM,
‘Why would Connolly want to fight alongside Nazi Germany in a bid to destroy Spanish democracy?’

Why would any of the leaders of 1916 want to fight to eradicate the Catholic religion in Spain? Almost 10,000 bishops, monks, priests, and nuns were ruthlessly slaughtered by internationalists inspired by a hatred of the Spanish nation and the Catholic religion. When they had killed them all they dug up the remains out of convent graveyards to desecrate them further. I do not believe that any of those who gave their lives for God and country would support those who opposed both in Spain.

‘When we cut through your padding on the ‘the Catholic Church teaches on Faith and Morals’ we reach the crux which is that the Church has from the pope down condemned the use of IRA force.’

I am not aware of any condemnation of IRA actions from the Pope down. Maybe you could enlighten me. (Nothing after Pope Pius XII will be relevant to me, as they are of disputed authority).

‘The use of force has long been central (sic) to Catholic morality. It deals with the fifth of the ten commandments you sometimes like to cite.’

The use of force is not precluded in the face of unjust aggression.

‘Anybody claiming that the Church teaches IRA force is right is deluding themselves as no one else is deluded.’

It all hinges on legitimacy. If the Army has a claim to legitimacy, then its use of force can be right. If it has no claim to legitimacy, it would be harder to establish a basis on which it should operate.

“‘Some of the general principles involved here would be; a legitimate authority must always be obeyed, when not advocating evil; a Nation has the right to defend itself against aggressors.’”

‘The Church regards the Dublin government as the legitimate authority in the South and that it must be obeyed. You want that government destroyed.’

If it is true that the Church held that the Dublin Government was legitimate, that was while it laid claim to a 32 county State. As it no longer does that, it would open the question up again. It has certainly not recognised Britain’s right over the Six Counties. Political situations are very volatile, and that is why the Church, in her wisdom, puts forwards general principles rather than definitive judgements on most political situations. Rarely does it engage its authority on the legitimacy of a given State.
.
‘The men of 1916 don’t have the right to bind the people of today to their authority. The people of today have the right to decide their own authority. That we may not like what they have decided is secondary to their right to do so.’

Suicide is in breach of the Fifth Commandment. Therefore the people of Ireland do not have the right for a majority decision of National suicide.

“You want to tell the rest of us that there is some obligation to obey Catholic teaching when you pay no attention to it yourself. I see better now what attracts you to the Spanish fascists.”

As a member of the golf club, I have read the rules. I am happy that I pay full attention to what it teaches on this matter. I am not in the slightest attracted to Spanish fascists, however I am less attracted to amalgamations of murderous communists and anarchists which spurned the likes of La Pasionaria, whipped up into such hysteria that she killed a priest through biting into his jugular vein. That anti-clerical hysteria is a constant theme, together with incessant claims of immorality towards priests and nuns. It was championed by the Maria Monk lies, through the anti Catholic assaults in Mexico, Spain and is alive and well since the defection of large parts of the Catholic Church has confirmed the worst prejudices of its enemies. The irony is though, that it is those who have defected from the Church that have been responsible for the decades of filthy behaviour. They do not accept Catholic teaching so their deeds should not reflect on the Church but on those who equally do not accept it.

John They were Irish patriots trying to build an...

2012-05-21T08:57:53.914+01:00

John

They were Irish patriots trying to build an Ireland that was inclusive of all, not some Catholic Ireland. Nor were they fascists. Why would Connolly want to fight alongside Nazi Germany in a bid to destroy Spanish democracy?

When we cut through your padding on the ‘the Catholic Church teaches on Faith and Morals’ we reach the crux which is that the Church has from the pope down condemned the use of IRA force. The use of force has long been central to Catholic morality. It deals with the fifth of the ten commandments you sometimes like to cite. Anybody claiming that the Church teaches IRA force is right is deluding themselves as no one else is deluded.

‘Some of the general principles involved here would be; a legitimate authority must always be obeyed, when not advocating evil; a Nation has the right to defend itself against aggressors.’

The Church regards the Dublin government as the legitimate authority in the South and that it must be obeyed. You want that government destroyed. The Church holds that the aggressors are the IRA. You choose to disregard this. And then you tell us that the Church must be obeyed.
‘If you accept to Stormont or Leinster House as legitimate authorities ...’

The Church does.

‘The men of 1916 had to establish authority before the Rising would be legitimate. They did this, and the authority has been handed down to those who refuse to bow to unjust, illegal rule of Britain, Stormont or the Free State.’

The men of 1916 don’t have the right to bind the people of today to their authority. The people of today have the right to decide their own authority. That we may not like what they have decided is secondary to their right to do so.

‘The Catholic Church does not teach anything specifically about the IRA, that I am aware of.’

Disingenuous.

Your argument is self serving cant. You want to tell the rest of us that there is some obligation to obey Catholic teaching when you pay no attention to it yourself. I see better now what attracts you to the Spanish fascists.

John, Where the cardinal of Austria was screwing ...

2012-05-20T19:38:16.164+01:00

John,

Where the cardinal of Austria was screwing with their consent people not below the age of consent it means nothing to me. The point I was making – and I have no reason to doubt your information - is that this serial abuser (in respect of all those below the age of consent and) was covered for by the Pope of the day. How could a man supposedly in some way guided by the holy spirit be guilty of such criminality? Many of these people at the top of the Church are criminals John. They cannot set moral laws for anyone.

‘It is like describing a bank robber and not being allowed to say he is black.’

Good point as it draws attention to the problem which begins when we imply or state the he robbed the bank because he was black.

AM, ‘One can never tell but I doubt any of the dea...

2012-05-19T21:54:34.537+01:00

AM,
‘One can never tell but I doubt any of the dead 1916 leaders would have gone to fight for the fascists.’

Given that they were all Catholic patriots, I don’t see why they would not have fought alongside other Catholic patriots whose religion and country were under threat.

“AM: 'So Catholic teaching on some areas of morality can be disregarded?'”

“JM ‘No. I'm not sure why you think this.’”

‘Catholic teaching on the IRA’s armed struggle. You have disregarded that or pretend not to know what it is or when you acknowledge what it is you claim it is alright to ignore it.’

The Catholic Church teaches on Faith and Morals. As it believes that morality always has an objective element, it tends to give general principles rather than specify the exact behaviour in every given occasion. Some of the general principles involved here would be; a legitimate authority must always be obeyed, when not advocating evil; a Nation has the right to defend itself against aggressors; unjust laws are no laws at all.

That is why it is so important to have a legitimate authority. England has no right to authority in Ireland and so it cannot be found there. If you accept to Stormont or Leinster House as legitimate authorities then I cannot see, (but am open to persuasion), that there can be any legitimacy for an armed struggle, or even for civil disobedience.

The men of 1916 had to establish authority before the Rising would be legitimate. They did this, and the authority has been handed down to those who refuse to bow to unjust, illegal rule of Britain, Stormont or the Free State. While one man will continue to uphold the right for the freedom of Ireland from unjust aggression, then that resistance is permitted.

So, I am not disregarding any Catholic teaching. The Catholic Church does not teach anything specifically about the IRA, that I am aware of. Many clerics have given opinions, some which confuse the issue. They cannot overturn the principles, based on natural law, which allow unjust aggressors to be defended against in accordance with legitimate authority.

Donegal Diversion Marty, A Church of paedophiles...

2012-05-18T18:22:01.404+01:00

Donegal Diversion

Marty,

A Church of paedophiles. A great collective term.

John,

‘Some misled ones did, some fought for God and Spain.’
The abuse and overthrow of Spanish democracy by the fascists was a sorry episode in modern European history. One can never tell but I doubt any of the dead 1916 leaders would have gone to fight for the fascists. Then who knows? That is not to say that all was rosy in the republican side. Quite a lot of nefarious activity went on, much of it directed by the Soviet Union. Many of the republicans who went with the International Brigades did so to fight O’Duffy because of his anti republicanism in Ireland rather than out of love for the Spanish republican cause.
AM: 'So Catholic teaching on some areas of morality can be disregarded?'

JM ‘No. I'm not sure why you think this.’

Catholic teaching on the IRA’s armed struggle. You have disregarded that or pretend not to know what it is or when you acknowledge what it is you claim it is alright to ignore it.

‘It is difficult to justify the Irish Republican cause if you accept the legitimacy of Leinster House, Stormont or Westminster. Maybe that explains why we are where we are.’

Whether we like it or not the living people are sovereign. Their decisions might annoy me but they have more rights against me than I have against them.

AM, 'John the Cardinal of Austria molested an...

2012-05-18T15:39:00.923+01:00

AM,

'John the Cardinal of Austria molested an estimated 2000 children.'

But it was not all children, and it was not all non-consensual.

Czernin's investigation of Cardinal Hans Hermann Groer revealed that he had had sex with over 2,000 young men

Various Wikipedia articles also mention seminarians, monks etc, and mostly refer to ‘young men’ rather than children.

Does this make it okay? Of course not, but we have to call it as it is. Once again it is a highly placed homosexual abusing his position and preying on the vulnerable.

If political correctness insists that we cannot identify it for what it is, how can it be stopped.

It is like describing a bank robber and not being allowed to say he is black.

If a bunch (what is the collective noun for a numb...

2012-05-18T14:50:04.670+01:00

If a bunch (what is the collective noun for a number of paedo,s?.I suggest a church)were to move into a house together in a built up area ,would anyone object to the locals demanding that they be removed,so how come the catholic church has got away with it this long.these peddlers in myths have a captive audience in their thankfully diminishing congregations,the fact these churchs exist and the power they exercise is a magnet to these creeps,so it seems to me that disbanding the church takes away their ability to rape at will and get away with it it a lot of cases.

John, ‘Traitors have always existed.’ From the mi...

2012-05-18T14:10:26.612+01:00

John,

‘Traitors have always existed.’
From the minute their names were drawn in sand by JC.

‘Yes, there has always been a minuscule amount of predatory homosexuality, but it was not institutionalised until the post Vatican II era. Prior to that those who engaged in it were dealt with mercilessly.’

As were people who were burned and tortured for not disagreeing with the Church. The evidence would seem to suggest that rape has always been rampant in the Church and not merely since Vatican 2. As Tom Doyle says ‘Although clergy sexual abuse has been well documented from the earliest years of the Catholic Church the present era is unique.’ And he goes on to explain why it is unique in terms different from yourself.

‘Those homosexuals who entered the priesthood to access their victims’

Those child molesters who entered the priesthood to access their vicitms and who were protected when they did.

John the Cardinal of Austria molested an estimated 2000 children. The pope knew and did nothing. Why wouldn’t these predators go to the church? Be they homosexual or not they were afforded protection.

There may well be a homosexual subculture in the Church. But like elsewhere where such a culture exists it does not follow that children are raped. It was safe to rape children in the Church. The institution would protect its own. How many child rapes are carried out by gay men in the military or other institutions and then have it covered up on a global basis by the command and control? Nor does any of this address the abuse of girls by male priests. The problem is not one of homosexuals, it is one of raped children, boys and girls.

There is no consensus that homosexuality is evil. There is consensus that Church cover ups are evil.

The people who accept and promote homosexuality are guilty of nothing other than being human. The Church is guilty of being inhuman. Where homosexuals rape they should be treated exactly as heterosexuals who rape.

‘Those children have been abused because a small number of those within the Church have accepted sodomy as legitimate.’

They have been abused because the Church protected the abusers within its midst who valued power over children.

John, ‘outrageous forgeries’ It would be comfort...

2012-05-18T11:56:06.113+01:00

John,

‘outrageous forgeries’

It would be comforting I guess if that could be stood over and the Brits could be nailed. But the body of evidence is against that perspective.

‘The unequivocal and confident conclusion which the Giles Document Laboratory has reached is that each of the five documents collectively known as the Black Diaries is exclusively the work of Roger Casement's hand, without any reason to suspect either forgery or interpolation by any other hand. The Diaries are genuine throughout and in each instance.’

As for Wolfe Tone, it is my view based on what I have read is that he did attempt to end his own life before giving the British the pleasure of executing him. Hardly an ignoble action.
I didn’t defend Casement, merely pointed out to you the incongruity of your own position.

I more respect him for his work in the Congo than anything else.
That he was in your terms a ‘sodomite’ means nothing to me. It is like saying he prefers turnips to cabbages. It is a taste not a moral. If he was engaged in raping children he will get no sympathy here. The same for Wilde.

‘Either way, he converted and became a Catholic before he died.’

Makes him no better or worse. Hardly a mitigating factor

Good footage of O'Duffy here, with his compell...

2012-05-16T15:19:25.618+01:00

Good footage of O'Duffy here, with his compelling reasons for helping Spain against the Judaeo-Masonic forces of atheism, that martyred so many thousands.

www.bbcmotiongallery.com/gallery/clip/48050384_1400.do

The bishops gave O,Duffy,s departing blueshirts th...

2012-05-16T09:49:29.094+01:00

The bishops gave O,Duffy,s departing blueshirts the nazi salute as the German ship flying the swastika sailed out of Dun Laoghaire harbour. John no wonder the floor of hell is covered with the skulls of bishops.

Donegal Diversion ‘Unlike the Pope, when we have ...

2012-05-16T09:02:43.719+01:00

Donegal Diversion

‘Unlike the Pope, when we have one, I am not infallible.’

So the current pope is not your pope? You are as infallible as any fallible pope.

‘I have no appetite to sate for political violence, but I do believe that Ireland is entitled to freedom.’

But that must also mean freedom from you or me or our methods, whatever they might be. Or are people only to be free from what we say they can be free from? That hardly amounts to being free.

‘As for 'gay lifestyle/culture', well, doesn't every normal person abhor what they do?’

Not at all. I think I am normal and I don’t abhor what gays do. In fact it is none of my business how they conduct their business. Not being religious I have no desire to stick my nose into their business.

‘If I wanted to put my food in my ear, I would think I had a serious problem.’

The gay person would agree if you also stuck food up your backside.

A woman’s tongue in your ear might make you feel different.

‘ At least I know that had they listened and followed the Church, in its clear teachings on the sixth and ninth Commandments, then not one single child would ever have been abused.’

If good old god had intervened with a bit of the divino rather than sending the ma off on miracle tours not one child would have been raped.

If the Church command and control had thought more of children and less of rapist priests far fewer children would have fallen foul.

‘Unfortunately they didn't listen’

Ken Ham called his book something like that. But he believes the world is 6000 years old.

‘Do you know of any Irish patriot who gave his life for Ireland who was an atheist?’

Offhand, no.

AM, ‘We don’t worry about hell. It is too filled ...

2012-05-15T22:38:34.576+01:00

AM,

‘We don’t worry about hell. It is too filled with priests to have any room for us.’

St. John Chrysostom said, "The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops!"

‘But Irish patriots travelled to Spain to fight the Falange and all those Catholic fascists who backed Franco.’

Some misled ones did, some fought for God and Spain.

‘So Catholic teaching on some areas of morality can be disregarded?’

No. I’m not sure why you think this.

“‘Until very recently all Republicans held that the authority of government lay with them rather than Leinster House, Stormont or Westminster.’”

‘Fundamentalist ones perhaps but I have met quite a few republicans over the years and few if any were theological about the thing.’

It is difficult to justify the Irish Republican cause if you accept the legitimacy of Leinster House, Stormont or Westminster. Maybe that explains why we are where we are.

John, We don’t worry about hell. It is too filled...

2012-05-15T21:27:31.571+01:00

John,

We don’t worry about hell. It is too filled with priests to have any room for us.

‘The hierarchy of the Catholic Church has all but gone over to a new religion, which is why I can't see why you don't back them.’

So we both oppose the hierarchy but for different reasons.

‘good Catholic men take on the assortment of Freemasons,
Communists and Anarchists who threatened Spain, there is no possible reason that Irish patriots cannot fight for Ireland.’

But Irish patriots travelled to Spain to fight the Falange and all those Catholic fascists who backed Franco.

‘we are bound to believe what we are taught in matters of Faith and morals.’

Why bound? What possibly could people who cover up rape teach you who opposes rape and cover up about morals?

‘Whilst there are some applications in the field of morals to the question, they cannot preclude the right of the people of Ireland to hold allegiance to the Republic. ‘

So Catholic teaching on some areas of morality can be disregarded?

‘Until very recently all Republicans held that the authority of government lay with them rather than Leinster House, Stormont or Westminster.’

Fundamentalist ones perhaps but I have met quite a few republicans over the years and few if any were theological about the thing.

John, ‘You are not that bad, Anthony, just invin...

2012-05-15T18:10:19.811+01:00

John,

‘You are not that bad, Anthony, just invincibly ignorant’

I know. It comes with being fallible!

The noble savage has gone quite grey John.

John, ‘the only infallible bastion of truth’ Cou...

2012-05-15T13:21:34.154+01:00

John,

‘the only infallible bastion of truth’

Could you give us some evidence for such a strong assertion?

‘do we abolish the family?’

We might break up the family in which it is happening, much like is happening with the family of Tyler Whelan in Peterborough, and jail the family head or employ some other sanction against them. Should the family head be left unaccountable?

'Piss Christs' etc are in my view attention seeking actions. I am dubious about their value and what it is they seek to draw attention to. But that we have such freedoms in secular society is something to be recommended. It doesn’t mean that we have to exercise that freedom. I will not be found pissing on crucifixes or stabbing holy communion wafers but I don’t get excited one way or the other when it happens. I don’t piss on Man Utd tops or stab Utd emblems.’ Imagine somebody pissing on a Liverpool scarf and then me frothing at the mouth over it, and wishing them to be burned in hell. People would think me the problem rather than the piss artist.

The ‘true religion ‘,

Well, they all claim that.

‘their insane desire to destroy the Christian Faith.’

I see an insane desire at times to defend it no matter how heinous its crimes.

‘It always amazes me how each groups' crackpots are so similar.’

Would never have thought.

And what if Jews reject Christ? It would seem to be a human being’s right to reject Christ, Satan, Liverpool FC or whoever.

AM, ‘I think John mistakes the explosion in disco...

2012-05-15T10:03:13.960+01:00

AM,

‘I think John mistakes the explosion in discourse about clerical abuse with its actual existence.’

No. Traitors have always existed. But the rise in the homosexual movement and the post Vatican II abandonment of traditional morality meant that since the 1960s predatory homosexuals had all the opportunities they wanted with no penalties.

‘It has always been there. All we are debating is the extent. It has been reported that 153 AD saw the first recorded case of clerical child abuse.’

Yes, there has always been a minuscule amount of predatory homosexuality, but it was not institutionalised until the post Vatican II era. Prior to that those who engaged in it were dealt with mercilessly.

Enemies of the Church used it as cover. Those homosexuals who entered the priesthood to access their victims attempted to take the Church over from within. They will never succeed, because they are now being forced out. That is why the liberal Catholics so desperately want to undermine Catholic teaching. They are desperate to cover up the fact of the links between homosexuality and abuse. That link is rock solid, even if liberal bishops in the USA don’t want to admit it. L Podles is clear, R engels is clear, the whole of Catholic experience is that it is homosexual abuse coupled with a lack of decisive action to take on the pink brigade.

As the Deetman Commission concludes;

“…of the sexual abuse of boys, especially in institutions run by religious orders suggests that a homosexual subculture was and is a crucial factor for the abuse.

The REAL guilty people in this are those who accept and promote homosexuality. Those children have been abused because a small number of those within the Church have accepted sodomy as legitimate. Those who continue to do accept the legitimacy of the abomination of sodomy, in or out of the church, have a lot to answer for. Those who close their minds because of prejudice, refusing all the evidence, are almost as bad as the homosexual predators themselves.

PS, I would be interested in your views on the alleged activities of Roger Casement.

Marty, I think John mistakes the explosion in dis...

2012-05-15T08:30:51.946+01:00

Marty,

I think John mistakes the explosion in discourse about clerical abuse with its actual existence. I think Alfie is probably closer to the mark. As you suggest the deference that fed into the silence is no more. Take a look at Archbishop Martin. I tend to like him and would listen to what he says even when I disagree with him. But I watched him last week dressed up in all bishop’s regalia trying to talk about issues of serious concern. But how do you take seriously somebody that presents himself in terms of appearance just like the tin man in the Wizard of Oz? I said to my wife ‘he might be talking sense but how are we to even hear what he says when we look at the way he looks?’

John,

It has always been there. All we are debating is the extent. It has been reported that 153 AD saw the first recorded case of clerical child abuse.

I find your analogies very weak. We don’t blame marriage for the paedos that our married any more than we blame cemeteries for the people that are buried in them. The Church unlike marriage is a living entity, thinking, planning and aiding and abetting in these crimes against Children. It is a repeated accomplice after the fact. It is on trial everywhere, has paid out billions in compensation. The case can be made – and has been – that its leadership should be tried for crimes against humanity. How could we bring marriage to court, charge it and find it guilty or innocent?

AM, 'And Roger Casement would be pronounced a...

2012-05-13T23:24:18.241+01:00

AM,

'And Roger Casement would be pronounced a traitor.'

Surely you don't believe the outrageous forgeries put out to blacken his name?

They did the same with Wolfe Tone, alleging suicide on his part. A typical British tactic.

Of course if you do believe the lies about Roger casement, I can't see why you would be defending him, as the diaries reveal a predatory sodomite engaged in sexual tourism with boys. Just why you think it is okay that he might have done it, or Oscar Wilde did, yet wrong when clerical sodomites do it, I am not clear on.

Either way, he converted and became a Catholic before he died.

John, ‘Do you really think that the Catholic Chu...

2012-05-12T23:14:29.449+01:00

John,

‘Do you really think that the Catholic Church was founded to provide victims for paedophiles?’

Never has been my view.

‘Do you really believe the Catholic Church should be banned?’

Yes. The neutral observer would ask why a rape cartel should not be banned.

So the mass murder of children is preferable to a gay lifestyle? That morality is not for me. It is warped.

How are we to evaluate a morality that wants both gays and innocent children put to death other than as unadulterated evil?

‘But maybe that is at least partially because the secular authorities do not consider sodomy a crime any more.’

They regard the rape of children as a crime and still the Church did not hand the perps over.

‘I bet it would have put a stop to the homo brigade if they had been.’

This suggests that the IRA should have considered making gays ‘legitimate targets.’ What attitude would they have taken to gay volunteers on the blanket? And Roger Casement would be pronounced a traitor.

‘If priests do not sodomize, then they won't be sodomizing kids!’

Priests riding each other is not the problem. It is when they go for children that it becomes a problem. What we see here is the criminalisation of sexual behaviour on religious grounds. There is no more merit to that than criminalising it on the basis of what the members of a golf club believe. Club house rules might have their place in the club but not in society.