Comments on The Pensive Quill: Little

Tain Bo I think it says a lot about how the inte...

2010-06-20T19:21:26.335+01:00

Tain Bo

I think it says a lot about how the internet has smashed much of the power of the censor.

marty

‘What’s the alternative Anthony leave it to those who would live the high
life on the backs of so much misery?’

there are republican alternatives but none that will overcome the problem of partition. SF abandoned republicanism to make progress on other fronts but not the anti-partition one.

Tain bo yip a cara your spot on as usual

2010-06-16T12:00:14.545+01:00

Tain bo yip a cara your spot on as usual

Marty I think this is the alternative debating and...

2010-06-15T23:06:18.027+01:00

Marty
I think this is the alternative debating and deconstructing the failure rather than accepting the standard lines. The only way forward is through sensible critical republican debate! Perhaps one of the greatest failings in our time is republicanism has never been cohesive this is one issue the Brits understand and will continue to manipulate republican division.

Anthony

It is a useful tool for educating more importantly the scholastic world will pick apart the Blanket and the Quill. It is an interesting concept the Victors are not the only ones who get to write the history now.

Whats the alternative Anthony leave it to those wh...

2010-06-14T12:45:36.838+01:00

Whats the alternative Anthony leave it to those who would live the high life on the backs of so much misery, if nothing else we must keep chipping away and exposing those hypocrites at every opportunity, I would be optimistic enough to believe that a wiser and more focussed grouping will emerge,we cant go on repeating the mistakes of the past

‘and what’s left of the original revolutionary mov...

2010-06-13T17:51:07.352+01:00

‘and what’s left of the original revolutionary movement soon
fragments and disperses into insignificant small groups’

Marty,

This is the way it seems to have ended up

‘through debate we will find common ground, and what springs from this will be a well informed and
unified group with a clear agenda, and not a knee jerk organisation which was the parent of prm’

You are more confident that I am

Tain Bo

pleased that you find TPQ useful for the discussion. Discussion and exploration are always welcome except in totalitarian circles.

Fingal,

appreciated your comment on the hassle we got for thinking differently. I hope the 'intelligent republican discussion' continues. Those who comment make that happen.

blackwatertown, hope you enjoyed it all. There is...

2010-06-10T22:02:56.809+01:00

blackwatertown,

hope you enjoyed it all. There is a great piece about the Powell memoirs from Mike Burke

Nuala,

This is what amazes many people. I did a spoof piece once called Spy Wednesday and more than enough people told me it had the SF flock down to a T. They could be duped into believing anything. I remember Bangers stating publicly that there would be no decommissioning by the year 3000 and there was me asking if we were both on the same planet; how he could fail to see what was in front of his nose simply did not compute. He was not alone – others just didn’t say it so publicly. It perplexed me that anybody would hitch their intellectual credibility to a wagon that was going in the opposite direction.

I spoke to Bill Lowry about the Castlereagh operation. He said it was just old rubbish they got. A republican told me that he thinks they were set up – the Branch needed rid of a lot of files before they were handed over to an inquiry so destroyed them and then invited the raiders into Castlereagh. After that they SB told the inquiry ‘files stole by IRA from Castlereagh.’

Nuala, I have done conferences all over England and shared platforms with a wide range of people. Brit officials are incredibly at ease and open about their victory. What they profess not to understand is how the grassroots bought into it.

Marty,

It will always be a moot point about why the IRA was defeated. Whether it was a leadership induced defeat or simply the product of overwhelming Brit power. I think it was a war that could never have been won. The sell out lay less in the defeat and more in the manner in which it was managed.

Tain Bo

‘It would be essential for the PIRA to maintain a certain level of
authority over alternative thinking republicans.’

That has been amply demonstrated by now and it stems from a range of reasons. But SF have become the contras of republican struggle.

Gerry Itwasnt me was inspecting the dare I say it...

2010-06-08T16:24:15.250+01:00

Gerry Itwasnt me was inspecting the dare I say it the troops,he says to Bob do Brains "I didnt see you at camoflage training this morning" Bob do Brains replies"thank you boss"

Very interesting reviews. I also want to echo both...

2010-06-08T15:37:05.594+01:00

Very interesting reviews. I also want to echo both Nula's and Tain Bo's thanks to you, Anthony, in providing a much needed space on the web for some intelligent Republican discussion and thought, that neither obeys the thought police of PSF nor embraces the futile violence of despair of the C/RIRA's. I know your independent stance has cost your dearly and I was dismayed, but not especially surprised, to read in your Scotsman article of the treatment of your family the hands of a PSF led mob. There is nothing Adams fears more than Independent Republican Thinkers (the IRT!).
I sometimes think you should have "You are now entering Free Thinking Derry" at the top of your page!

Spot on Tain Bo a cara,the positive thing out of a...

2010-06-08T12:15:16.225+01:00

Spot on Tain Bo a cara,the positive thing out of all of this is that apart from the sheep who follow blindly the forked tounge leaders of psf, the rest of the republican community have learned a very hard lesson and I,m sure they will never allow any individual ,or clique so much control again, probably one of the main reasons why we havent yet seen a unified republican opposition to the psf stance, the debate that is going on and the soul searching is imo not a bad thing,it may well help exorcise the demoms of the past, and through debate we will find common ground, and what springs from this will be a well informed and unified group with a clear agenda, and not a knee jerk organisation which was the parent of prm

It certainly is food for thought Marty when the re...

2010-06-08T11:07:44.996+01:00

It certainly is food for thought Marty when the revolution is usurped by the revolutionaries and then sold to the people as a progressive means to an end. In marketing terms they sold peace to the people when in truth they were selling the end of traditional republican ideology.
One thing is certain it has changed how republicans think and has created a more astute awareness within republican thinkers.
That is one reason I visit the quill both for the articles and the comments the more people comment the more we learn.

Yes thats about the way I see it Tain Bo, just as ...

2010-06-07T22:57:54.783+01:00

Yes thats about the way I see it Tain Bo, just as Kitson planned it, destroy the revolution from within, then use counter revoluntionaries to police whats left, by whatever means suits ,demoralise that constituency,remove the will to fight, you then have peace at any price, and whats left of the original revolutionary movement soon fragments and disperses into insignificant small groups, aye to me thats about where we are now. only one flaw in all that, its the Irish they just keep coming back, might be another generation but as Arnie says we will be back!

It would be essential for the PIRA to maintain a c...

2010-06-07T22:04:20.772+01:00

It would be essential for the PIRA to maintain a certain level of authority over alternative thinking republicans. The war may be over and the weapons dumped but that does not remove the psychology of fear and control. It works out well for British military purposes having their former enemies police their present enemies. The former guerilla fighters inadvertently have assumed the role as a counter guerilla force within this political quagmire.
The only role the inactive (still active) PIRA would hold is that of the strong arm of Sinn Fein.
Considering free thinking republicans are viewed by Sinn Fein as a threat to their political dominance of all things republican. Ironically Sinn Fein’s worst enemy is itself the party engaged in revolution and then in counter revolution to establish itself as a legitimate political party. In the short term a tentative peace is established in the long term the party has weakened its future as a viable political force as their credibility seems to raise more questions than answers.

totally agree Anthony and we all know who controll...

2010-06-07T12:12:05.529+01:00

totally agree Anthony and we all know who controlled the army council

Mick, given its location in Adams West Belfast c...

2010-06-07T11:58:41.142+01:00

Mick,

given its location in Adams West Belfast constituency, the street - same as where O' Connor's grandfather was killed in an act that blew state collusion with loyalists wide open - the potential ramifications, the political climate at the time, I would be convinced that it was ordered or approved by the army council.

Am I mistaken in believing the murder of Joe O'...

2010-06-07T11:11:16.428+01:00

Am I mistaken in believing the murder of Joe O'Connor would have either been ordered by the PIRA A/C, or at the very least approved by it before it happened?

Simon I would,nt apoligise for saying that Powell ...

2010-06-07T09:18:44.451+01:00

Simon I would,nt apoligise for saying that Powell uses ambiguous language,of course he does, man after all hes part of the brit establishment, i.e. prefidious Albion,why do you think they have the 3 lion symbols,1 royalty lying b###ards,2the church lying b###ards3 parliment all lying b###ards

Great read Anthony... waiting for part 4 hurry up ...

2010-06-07T01:46:05.520+01:00

Great read Anthony... waiting for part 4 hurry up hehe

Anthony, Thanks for the link. I was aware of the...

2010-06-06T23:21:25.469+01:00

Anthony,

Thanks for the link.

I was aware of the arguments but it was very useful reading a contemporaneous explanation again.

Simon, I think you are very good at articulating y...

2010-06-06T23:09:39.991+01:00

Simon, I think you are very good at articulating your view point.
I like listening to how people interpret books, films, speeches.
Often I read an interpretation and think, how come I missed that?
Heard Powell speak at the Iraq inquiry and I thought he was both clever and evasive.

I was just wondering was he ambiguous or just manipulative or both?
Or had he an agenda for being ambiguous about certain things and up front about others?
Looking forward to reading the final review!

Fionnuala, (I apologise if my memory of the book ...

2010-06-06T22:52:00.171+01:00

Fionnuala,

(I apologise if my memory of the book is flawed- I read it over a year ago.)

I didn't mean Jonathan Powell uses ambiguous language in everyday life. I was just trying to describe his method of telling the story of the negotiations in "Great Hatred, Little Room".

He isn't clear about a lot of things. He alludes to things which he doesn't pin down. He often isn't precise or clear and there are many events, scenarios, conclusions etc. that he hints at but leaves room for widely different interpretations. eg.was there complete IRA decommissioning? Powell couldn't realistically express with certainty that there definitely wasn't but he implies there wasn't.

I didn't think the paragraph about supporters of the PIRA leadership keeping the RIRA "in check in the pubs and clubs" was ambiguous but now Anthony's interpretation shows that there was room for interpretation. For me, the context of Adams and Powell talking about the attitudes of people was the key. For Anthony something more sinister was at foot.

I am not great at articulating my views sometimes so Fionnuala there is not only no need to apologise but I should say "thank you" for asking for clarification.

Thanks also Anthony for the link.

Nuala, no interruption at all. Comment is always w...

2010-06-06T22:29:11.893+01:00

Nuala, no interruption at all. Comment is always welcome and yours add depth to the discussion. I dip in and out of discussion, and don't get to respond to a lot of it due to time. Powell is certainly worth reading.

Mackers, still have not read the book as I am just...

2010-06-06T22:23:41.318+01:00

Mackers, still have not read the book as I am just now coming to the final part of Voices from the Grave.

I was not disagreeing with Simon.
I just did not know what the whole ambiguity thing meant?

I also think I interrupted a discussion on interpretation between the two of you which I apologise for.
So back to my book.

Simon, If you are interested in reading the Scot...

2010-06-06T22:15:56.174+01:00

Simon,

If you are interested in reading the Scotsman article referred to: The war may be over, but the violence still lingers on (Nov 2000).

Nuala, one problem with Powell is that he does g...

2010-06-06T22:10:29.993+01:00

Nuala,

one problem with Powell is that he does get a few things wrong which I touch on in the final part of the review. His notes might not always have been taken at the time, and recorded later and that might allow for some variance. However, I still believe the meaning in relation to RIRA was as I said it was.

Simon, there is much in that about the need not ...

2010-06-06T21:48:42.168+01:00

Simon,

there is much in that about the need not to disband. However, I recall writing in the Scotsman after the O'Connor killing that part of the rationale behind killing him was to increase as much animosity between the two groups as possible so that it would stem any crossover from the Provisionals to the Real in the event of 1/ the Provos decommissioning 2/ the Provos supporting the police.