Comments on The Pensive Quill: Sick To The Teeth Of The English Presence

Robert, age - it does things to the mind. The Bi...

2010-11-22T10:24:34.453Z

Robert,

age - it does things to the mind. The Birmingham 3! Never noticed my mistake until reading your post.

Gerry McGeough was a very articulate critic of SF policy. The PSNI could have arrested him at any time. They chose to target him at the count centre. After the raid on Stormont they can hardy claim to be ignorant of the symbolism of these things. We must assume it was deliberate. In my view it was a case of putting manners on people who they had some evidence on from a bygone era and by using it sent out a message to the rest of us - criticise at your peril.

I think it also worth bearing in mind that republicans not in favour of violence were a constant thorn in the side of the peace process.

Anthony, "I did ask for the evidence and not...

2010-11-22T01:56:26.387Z

Anthony,

"I did ask for the evidence and not one bit of it did you provide.The argument amounts to if the police behave as such they must be right and he wrong. That is why it took so long to free the Birmingham 3"

Just a theory Anthony but not one based on the infallibility of the police or the state in the eyes of Unionists. Gerry's views are hardly a threat to the PSNI never mind national security. 'The Hibernian' probaly affronted Republicanism to a greater extent than presenting a challenge to the state. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think he secured 1.8% of the vote during the 2007 election? Why engender further dissent than that which his prosecution was designed to arrest?
There is a distinction between the Birmingham and McGeough cases in that the former was a classical cause celebre fought on the basis of the accused's innocence, the latter has essentially been defended on points of law. This is not the issue, but a matter arising from your reply although I have discerned it as being 'the elephant in the room' in much of the discussion surrounding this case.

Robert, a typical unionist inability to deal with...

2010-11-20T08:05:41.426Z

Robert,

a typical unionist inability to deal with the less than wholesome attributes of the state and a willingness to assume good motives to state behaviour.

I did ask for the evidence and not one bit of it did you provide. The argument amounts to if the police behave as such they must be right and he wrong. That is why it took so long to free the Birmingham 3.

I will go on the record and state openly that never once other than from yourself have I heard it suggested that Gerry McGeough is linked to or has been linked to armed republican activity since his break with the Provisionals.

Anthony, "And where would this body of opini...

2010-11-19T22:31:45.850Z

Anthony,

"And where would this body of opinion be? And on what does it base its opinion?"

From within my own community. The opinion would be based on the conclusion that political opposition to the PSNI and Sinn Fein alone would provide insufficent cause to pursue him above others. The involvement in armed 'dissident' activity provides the most plausible impetus for his prosecution.

Robert, ‘There is a body of opinion that views Ger...

2010-11-18T21:42:01.950Z

Robert,
‘There is a body of opinion that views Gerry's prosecution as being activated by involvement in extra-political activity.’

And where would this body of opinion be? And on what does it base its opinion?

Alfie, Colm knows the point full well and does no...

2010-11-13T20:48:59.617Z

Alfie,

Colm knows the point full well and does not miss it at all. It is residual from the Workers Party experience. Curable but it takes a while. The British state must be defended from ‘lunatics’ whose opposition to it was articulate and not violent. You have outlined the logic of the position pretty well. Or as Helen puts it ‘McGeough has always stood on his own two feet and doesn’t cow-tow to the RUC, British rule and PSF. He is only guilty of being his own man and running as an independent candidate on an anti PSNI platform.’

Tain Bo

‘I take it the “you all” is not a label just an address for anyone with
a view different from your own.’

Sums it up. It is an ailment peculiar to many hankering after the authoritarian left

Robert,

Sammy Brush was hardly an innocent. He was a member of a very sectarian armed body of men and women and even if he had no ‘form’ for misbehaving corporate responsibility pertains to some degree. He is alive and I can genuinely say I don’t regret that.

I was called an elitist by an ex comrade councillo...

2010-11-12T12:19:21.540Z

I was called an elitist by an ex comrade councillor once kinda proud of that now!

Helen, It was simply an issue of blatant injust...

2010-11-12T10:11:34.237Z

Helen,

It was simply an issue of blatant injustice to us

Gav,

If Gerry is to spend his time getting into hypocritical Free Ps he will be at it a lifetime. Jail would be easier than having to listen to the singing bigot and his ilk.

Colm,

Where is the evidence that Gerry McGeough is a racist bigot? He has views I don’t agree with but so what? Should he be discriminated against because of that? He is married to a foreign woman and his children have foreign blood in them. What sort of racist would he therefore be? Or are we back to the old leftist trick of trying to stifle discussion by labelling racist those who express ideas we don’t like? Seems you are slipping into the old Soviet nonsense of smearing as a lunatic those you can’t agree with. You might have left the Workers Party but it hasn’t left you.

Marty, I just got my copy of Afterlives: THe H...

2010-11-10T03:20:35.859Z
Marty,

I just got my copy of Afterlives: THe Hunger Strike and the Secret Offer that Changed Irish History by Richard O'Rawe and have just started to read it.

Regards, Rory

Eamon, for those of us who believe in no heavenly...

2010-11-09T21:47:35.364Z
Eamon,

for those of us who believe in no heavenly crown religious faith is of no consequence. There is no disputing that Gerry has taken a strong stand over the years for his religious opinion. And he has every right to express that opinion. Just like any other opinion in that respect. What he is being defended on here is his right not to be persecuted for his beliefs. He is being pursued because he is a republican not because he is a Catholic

For those of us who have no interest in Christ we would feel not in the slightest deprived if Ireland were to have no Catholic faith. We can live happily alongside those that do have a Catholic faith, just as we can with those of a Muslim or Jewish faith. We might prefer humanists and atheists but would not discriminate against others who were not

Rory we,re getting closer to the mark now a cara

2010-11-09T21:28:45.271Z
Rory we,re getting closer to the mark now a cara

Gerry, all, I just noticed an embarrassing typo ...

2010-11-08T22:21:14.682Z
Gerry, all,

I just noticed an embarrassing typo which may have caused confusion.

THe "broad-based Independence Movement that will demand the end to foreign misrule in our country" is actually based in 392 Falls Road Belfast.

I must apologise to the denizens of 342 Falls Road Belfast whoever they may be, especially if they are not a progressive, left wing party.

Best of luck Gerry,

Rory

Alfie You are correct as I left out the statistic...

2010-11-08T20:39:31.068Z
Alfie

You are correct as I left out the statistics for the Sticks and the RIRA; I was actually going to make the amendment to the figures but thanks for pointing it out.

Tain Bo, I think it's actually a little highe...

2010-11-08T20:08:36.383Z
Tain Bo,

I think it's actually a little higher than 53%. According to the CAIN project, republican paramilitaries were responsible 2057 deaths between 1969 and 2001, about 58% of the total killed during that period.

Robert I don’t think anyone can contest the facts...

2010-11-08T04:05:46.404Z
Robert

I don’t think anyone can contest the facts statistically republicans are responsible for about 53% of the killings.

Marty, chastity belts could be a very successful c...

2010-11-07T21:41:39.582Z
Marty, chastity belts could be a very successful cottage industry but only in taig areas. Could be worth a feasability study.

Tell ya something Eamon ,if we ever get the countr...

2010-11-07T14:20:11.564Z
Tell ya something Eamon ,if we ever get the country you invisage then I,m emmigrating and if thats not possible I,m fitting all my family out in chastity belts, otherwise we,d be f##ked like everyone else!!

Robert, No. I just wanted to check it out myself. ...

2010-11-07T13:20:03.030Z
Robert,
No. I just wanted to check it out myself.

Alfie,
The armed struggle is over. These young men who are now taking up where the provos left off are risking their lives for nothing. Unfortunately, the cards are stacked against them. The only way forward now is the ballot box and that is precisely what Gerry was trying to do when he was arrested.

He stood as an Independent candidate and brought his political platform to the people and wham...he is now on trial for alleged 30 year old charges and he is being hung out to dry in a kangaroo court (aka Diplock).

I haven’t seen one other political candidate, who was involved it the troubles prior to the GFA, given a parking ticket let alone arrested for his/her political views? So what gives here Alfie?

Dia Duit Gerry, May God bless you and your good fa...

2010-11-07T12:52:18.205Z
Dia Duit Gerry,
May God bless you and your good family. There's many of us out there who are very proud of the stand you've taken for our Faith. Indeed, you're an inspiration. Remember, if there's no cross in this world, there's no heavenly crown.
As you well know (and sadly too many seem not to), Ireland needs to be completely free of British (mis) rule but not free of her traditional Catholic Faith. For without Christ Ireland will be in a bondage worse than the Brits ever designed.
Please God, Gerry, it won't be too long before you once again have the Hibernian going.
God Save Ireland!
Slan agus beannacht leat,
Eamon O'Ryan

Skipping way back to Marty's comment, I agree ...

2010-11-06T11:45:04.499Z
Skipping way back to Marty's comment, I agree that the church has not always been a good friend to the Irish people.
Was it not Pope Adrian IV (an Englishman of course) who issued the papal bull "Laudabiliter" giving King Henry II of England the right to assume control over Ireland and encouraged Henry to invade to clean up Christianity there (i.e. apply Gregorian Reforms). (I'll skip the bit about the King of Leinster for now).
This Bull gave title and authority over Ireland to Kings Henry II through Henry VIII which led to further controls and titles. (some believe this Bull to be a forgery).
Another example is the Catholic Church, along with the Dublin government and the S.D.L.P., refusing to side with the 1981 Hunger Strikers, therefore providing insufficient pressure on the British government to capitulate.

Robert, That is the furthest thing from the truth....

2010-11-06T01:56:50.575Z
Robert,
That is the furthest thing from the truth. Certain people are trying to label Gerry as a "dissidents" in order to justify either their persecution of him or PSF’s silence on the case. Mairtin O’Muilleori wrote an article last week “Poppies in the Wind” which was a good article, but he back handed McGeough in his article when he labeled Gerry as a “dissident”.

Gerry gave up the armed struggle in 1994’s IRA cease-fire. He tried to live his life in peace with his family and, although he left Sinn Fein due to both religious and political differences, he tried to work through peaceful political means by running as an Independent candidate in the 2007 elections. His persecution/prosecution is based solely on his outspoken criticism of the RUC and his challenge of some of PSF’s political policies and direction. His magazine “The Hibernian” for God and Country - didn’t help his popularity either. He was very clear in his publications where he stood regarding his Catholicism, Irish nationalism and a re-united Ireland. In no way has Gerry been “active” so to speak, as some would like everyone to believe and he is not affiliated with any republican group.

Helen, "Where did you get those statistics f...

2010-11-06T01:34:20.132Z
Helen,

"Where did you get those statistics from?"

It is a statistical and historical fact that the IRA was responsible for the majority of deaths. I recall a figure of around 1705 souls. Post GFA, numerous conflict related writing has included final death tallies attributed to the various combatants. Are you seriously contesting this?

Robert, Gerry McGeough has stated publicly that h...

2010-11-06T01:21:59.655Z
Robert,

Gerry McGeough has stated publicly that he opposes the continuation of the armed struggle:

http://www.tribune.ie/news/article/2010/mar/07/why-am-i-on-trial-and-mcguinness-is-not/

It would be a novel approach to publicly oppose armed activities as a strategy for securing a united Ireland while at the same time pursuing them in private.

Good to see you back on the Quill, by the way.

Helen, "McGeough's persecution/prosecuti...

2010-11-06T00:53:27.792Z
Helen,

"McGeough's persecution/prosecution was exactly that...he dared to run as a candidate in the March 2007 elections on precisly that...an anti PSNI platform."

There is a body of opinion that views Gerry's prosecution as being activated by involvement in extra-political activity.

Anthony, 'back with us!' Always maintain...

2010-11-06T00:39:25.183Z
Anthony,

'back with us!'

Always maintain a watching if sometimes silent brief on the Quill - complusive viewing!

Thanks for enlightening me as to the terminology - as always Anthony you provide clarity on the sometimes puzzling.