Comments on The Pensive Quill: 55 Hours: Wednesday 8 July 1981

Tain Bo Sorry for the delay in replying regarding...

2013-05-30T01:47:24.411+01:00

Tain Bo

Sorry for the delay in replying regarding the timing of events re 05-30 am.
I have gone through a lot of documents, in my view, I am in favour of carries comments regarding mountain climbers time line, he was trying to contact Adams, the only evidence that we have regarding that timeline is Adams book, which I have not read, and, have never purchased any of his books, how are we to believe an habitual liar, stating that he was there at 05-30 am, when others were there "RA" to ensure he phoned no one else. I would say that is logical.

Carrie's work on the time-line documents has b...

2013-05-29T23:25:15.750+01:00

Carrie's work on the time-line documents has been excellent. I’ve had to print off loads of copies for my technophobe friends and family members. Thanks Carrie.x

I think the only way out for Bik is to just state ...

2013-05-22T14:14:51.856+01:00

I think the only way out for Bik is to just state what happened. He would win enormous admiration for it. It would not merely be a way out but a way up from the mire that is pulling him down.

I knew him quite well and would have serious difficulties with the idea that he just decided to do what Morrison and Adams did - sink the hunger strikers. If he made a mistake in that white hot crucible he should not be pilloried for it. Once Joe died the die was cast and he rolled with it. Yet his agreement with Richard to settle up is what redeems him. He did the honourable thing but he is losing it all by not distancing himself from the Committee. And he must know in his mind that the murder machine would do to him as it did to the six men.

As the evidence mounts he should bite the bullet. Hard to do but much better than being associated with the swine responsible for this foul enterprise.

Dixie: It was that Comm to Brownie and other thin...

2013-05-22T12:28:10.905+01:00

Dixie:

It was that Comm to Brownie and other things which made me bring Bik into the forefront , Turning around and going to sleep whilst men were dying , denying he had received the Comm with an offer which would have ended the hunger strike and saved 6 men's lives , denying he shouted down the wing to Richard details of offer, denying Richard replied , There's enough there , yet , he sent a Comm accepting the offer and got a reply , "there's not enough there , we need more".

Tain Bo:

I have no doubt Bik was a dedicated Soldier , as i stated above , that Comm from Bik to Brownie made the hair on the back of my neck stand up , Knowing what was planned for the big political drive for SF. I firmly believe he has got himself into a quagmire by all the denials just to cover for Adams and Co, and he has no way out of it , other than speak the truth , part of that truth is within the Comm he sent accepting the offer.

It seems certain Dixie that saving Joe McDonnell w...

2013-05-22T12:21:11.819+01:00

It seems certain Dixie that saving Joe McDonnell was at the very least not the no.1 priority for Adams or whoever was working with him on the outside but to credit Bik with the same motives, although perhaps understandable given how so many are annoyed with his failure to stand up and be counted as Richard O'Rawe has done, I still think is unfair. I can agree he was not in the business of getting a solution with Hugh Logue as Marty referred to, for as Carrie has already determined the ICJP was to be excluded at the behest of the outside leadership - I'd say that's why he rolled over on Logue. But that doesn't mean he was against a solution per se, Ricky himself has stated otherwise. It honestly seems to me the man was caught in a Catch-22 situation - he probably still is to this day.

I honestly believe for Bik the Hungerstrikes were about political status and nothing else, as a Blanketman himself it's very difficult to imagine he'd have been operating to another frame of reference. That doesn't preclude the idea that he could have envisaged outside political gains for the wider movement as you allude to, in fact I'd go as far as to say he'd probably have found a degree of comfort in this given the stark picture Adams painted for him of the 'two options' solution and that at least the men weren't dying for absolutely nothing. As far as I can see yes he's been wrong to cover for Adams and deserves all the criticism coming his way as a result but it's unlikely he led men to certain death so Sinn Fein could benefit politically. It's more likely that like the rest of you's he was being led along by the same external influences. And let's not forget it took many republicans years before finding the gumption to walk away from this leadership, plenty of us didn't go along with the idea that the Shinners were a sell-out when those like Mackers first spoke out. That's worth considering.

I wonder has Bik read the 55 Hours narrative and if he has can he take any of it on board. Cognitive dissonance we should remember though is a very powerful emotive force, when the human mind hears something that contradicts a fundamental belief system it seeks to preserve current understandings and can be incapable of processing the information no matter how powerful the evidence to back up the contradiction. This is the biggest obstacle I see facing the 55 Hour narrative - most people in this society are already apathetic and don't really care to delve too far into this but for the republican community, that does care and has a vested interest in this, a lot of it is just too uncomfortable, too difficult to process and cognitive dissonance kicks in. It's almost too incredible to believe that any self-respecting republican leader would place strategic considerations above the lives of the Hungerstrikers. In that respect it's important that the discussion continues and continues on and on however long it takes until we see some form of accountability. It's something we might never see

Clearly had Ricky brought this up earlier he would...

2013-05-21T22:48:07.462+01:00

Clearly had Ricky brought this up earlier he would have ended up as one of the disappeared. Don't forget that Ivor Bell was court-martialed for exposing the fact that Adams and McGuinness were running down the war in favour of politics.

Also, as I pointed out, Pat Beag McGeown did a harrowing interview for a book, The IRA and Armed Struggle, some years before Ricky wrote his book. On reading his interview in that book it was clear that he was having difficulties with what happened during the Hunger Strikes.

He was still with Sinn Fein but obviously some years had passed before he too brought his thoughts to the fore.

Itsjustmackers, there is a lot to read so it is p...

2013-05-21T21:07:48.268+01:00

Itsjustmackers,

there is a lot to read so it is plausible overlooking something or other. As for Adams leaving a safe house that would beg the question why not just sleep there knowing that a life(s) depended on it.

It is a tough question as to why Richard waited it would be reasonable to suggest it boils down to foot soldiers and generals loyalty to the cause versus personal conscience. In the court of republican opinion who would believe his version of events?
As for Bik he is undoubtedly a loyal foot soldier who followed orders without question and maintains that loyalty even with a very well documented narrative that defies it.

As I said to Mickey I would have preferred to poke holes in the narrative there are too many questions left unanswered.

In regards to Bik. I believe had Brendan Hughes be...

2013-05-21T19:07:15.239+01:00

In regards to Bik. I believe had Brendan Hughes been in his position he would have accepted the offer no matter what Adams said.

Bik was telling Pat Beag to keep his opinions to himself and not to air his opinions in front of Adams. Fuck me this was a man on Hunger Strike being told to keep his mouth shut. Bik should have been putting pressure on Adams instead of the men on Hunger Strike.

And he sent this comm out while men were dying...

"To Brownie from Bik Sun 26.7.81

The climate now is ripe to make significant progress and establish a firm base down there which is a necessity for future development and success in the final analysis.

To allow opportunities to slip by [opportunities which may not present themselves again] would be a grave mistake. We are examining the possibility of contesting elections and actually making full use of seats gained-ie participating in Dail. Such an idea presents problems within the Movement. How great would the opposition be and what would be the consequences of pursuing a course which did not enjoy a sizeable degree of support?''

Most importantly, he, Laurney, Pat Sheenan, McCartney among others know that they are lying for Adams yet they continue to do so.

In fact Jake Jackson in my opinion has been an Adamsite for years, he also advised Bik on the Blanket but never once that I know of has he come out and backed Adams or called Ricky a liar.

Jake might be a lot of things but he's not stupid, he knows the lies will catch up with them someday and he doesn't want to caught in the headlights when it does.

Sean bres said... "...and given the way the ...

2013-05-21T18:48:10.834+01:00

Sean bres said...

"...and given the way the British behaved in the first Hungerstrike it made the decision-making process much more difficult for those inside Long Kesh..."

Sean this is another of the many lies by the Adams committee that keeps coming back no matter how many times it's been disproved.

There was no offer by the Brits at the end of the First Hunger Strike. A document came in via Fr Meagher but it stated that, 'Prisoners could wear 'civilian type' clothing during the working week'
That was merely another name for prison clothing.

I heard Bobby say on his return to the wing that 'WE GOT NOTHING'.
Go to the prelude in 'Nothing but an unfinished Song' it says the above on the very first page. Morrison now admits it and the Thatcher documents contains a message from Duddy which stated that the Provisionals believed that HMG acted sincerely in trying to implement their side of the agreement at the end of the First Hunger Strike.

I agree Anthony he needs to state his own case and...

2013-05-21T15:33:44.894+01:00

I agree Anthony he needs to state his own case and give a full, truthful account of the goings on - wouldn't it be marvellous if he had the courage to do so. But we both know it'll probably never happen, his wagon as you rightly point out is firmly hitched to the Morrison counter-narrative and he's likely past the point of no return. He's imprisoned by his own unwillingness to confront the true nature of those in the upper echelons of the republican leadership - for whatever reason be it loyalty, fear or something else. But in that respect he's far from alone. Whatever it is about Gerry Adams he was and is able to inspire tremendous loyalty in those around him. So in that respect we also have a lot to thank Richard O'Rawe for, given it was him who first brought this damning narrative into the open. Otherwise it might have been concealed forever from history. I only hope that the mainstream media pick up more on this, personally I'm determined that as many people as I can possibly speak with should be made aware of the black goings on at the time and the questions that need answered, it should be discussed far and wide and we should have no shame in making it a topic for conversation. Republicans need to be prepared to countenance the "appalling vista" Richard refers to that men were allowed to die although it had been recognised that the Hungerstrike could not succeed but that a viable offer was in place to resolve the situation without loss of face. That's not really in dispute anymore given all the recent revelations, not even Michael in his blind loyalty can say otherwise, he can only attempt to move the conversation away from this inconvenient fact. The only thing that needs answered now is why it continued on regardless and who was responsible. Seems to me we don't have to look too far past Gerry Adams to answer the second part of that but the real question people need to consider is why. Why did he veto Bik and Richard's decision to accept the Mountain Climber, why did he have Pat McGeown silenced, why was information withheld from the prisoners, why was all reference to the Mountain Climber to be erased from the files, why was the comm in relation to the prison leadership accepting the Mountain Climber offer disappeared? These questions need answered and Adams and those who bear responsibility with him can't be allowed to dodge all this

Sean, I have long had difficulty reconciling myse...

2013-05-21T14:37:02.383+01:00

Sean,

I have long had difficulty reconciling myself to the possibility that Bik was part of the committee strategy to sabotage an end to the hunger strike. It is easy to accept that Adams would do it at the drop of a hat and that he got the hat to do the dirty work in the jail on the 5th of July. After listening to the range of lies from Morrison in his bid to smear O'Rawe, there is little room to conclude anything other than he knew exactly what he was doing. Those two are in the frame but others I am not so sure of.

But as you point out the evidence leaves Bik with lots of questions to answer and while he does not answer them a head of steam will continue to grow against him.

I think he needs to unhitch himself from Morrison's garbage wagon and openly state his own case.

It seems to me he was powerless to do anything abo...

2013-05-21T13:00:01.420+01:00

It seems to me he was powerless to do anything about it, the situation wasn't under his control - if only it had been the brinkmanship strategy of the 'shop stewards' preceding Joe McDonnell's death would not have been entertained. It seems Bik had the strategic wherewithal to recognise this was as good as it gets but allowed the assumption, so many of you's shared in, that Adams was an intellectual colossus by the standards of you mere mortals and was better placed to decide on such things. Like the rest of ye's he was probably too trusting of Adams or whatever clique was with him in the Belfast 'leadership' (it seems clear that there was an alternative leadership dealing with the situation than the actual leadership of the republican movement - the Army Council). I agree though Marty he hasn't helped his cause by continuing to provide cover for those who took the decision to prolong the Hungerstrikes - partly because to do so would probably mean he'd be out in the cold with the rest of you guys. Perhaps people like Bik are trapped now because they've made their bed and have no choice but to lie in it. For sure that's no excuse. But I don't believe that means he was in on the decision to keep it going, that responsibility lies elsewhere and we need to be careful who we attribute that responsibility to in all this no matter what anyone's position is now today. For sure Bik McFarlane has questions to answer about why he behaved as he did, then and now, but to my mind he has assisted the cover-up, probably unknowingly at first, rather than being a central agent in the conspiracy. So yeah he is one of those with questions to answer but ultimate responsibility lies higher up and Bik himself was probably used and abused like the protesting prisoners themselves

Sean a cara ,He turned his back and went to sleep,...

2013-05-21T12:15:37.763+01:00

Sean a cara ,He turned his back and went to sleep,some might suggest the actions of someone wrecked with guilt,whatever his reasons he knows that the version supplied by Richard O Rawe and backed up by the brits agent Duddy and excellently collated by Carrie is the definitive truth,he has opted to lie and wriggle with the other worms who allowed these men to die, he is part of the problem ,no amount of sugared words will ever sweeten that bitter truth ..

Ultimately what I'm trying to say here is that...

2013-05-21T11:37:44.218+01:00

Ultimately what I'm trying to say here is that regardless of who Bik sided with years later, whatever his reasons for doing so and let's face it he's not alone, at the time of the Mountain Climber negotiations in early July 1981 he was just as much used, just as much a pawn in a wider game, as the rest of you's. The disgraceful decision to engage in brinkmanship, using Joe McDonnell's desperate condition and knowing the political ramifications of entering a second phase of the Hungerstrike, I don't feel is attributable to Bik - even Carrie's narrative suggests the same. He wanted it ended but others kept it going. Why they did so given that they knew the likely consequences is something they will hopefully be forced to explain

This is all explosive stuff with feelings running ...

2013-05-21T10:33:21.504+01:00

This is all explosive stuff with feelings running high, probably because a lot of people were involved in this at the time and rightly are demanding answers. I'm thinking now I should have sat back and said nothing so I'm sorry if I've spoken out of turn. I just think it would be sad to see the tremendous investigative work involved here get lost in acrimonious allegations. There ARE questions to be answered and the effort should be placed on forcing those with questions to answer into answering them. We should pose the questions rather than make allegations, that way the information can speak for itself. Just my opinion

I think we have to be careful here when suggesting...

2013-05-21T10:23:37.560+01:00

I think we have to be careful here when suggesting things like Bik McFarlane may have been in on some secret agenda, frankly it's totally out of order and does a disservice to the excellent work Carrie has done here. Let's not forget the man's a human being too. You can't look at all this retrospectively in the context of his opinion on the Good Friday Agreement or the peace process. Hindsight's a wonderful thing. I couldn't read in any of the stuff I've come across, even the damning critique we have of the true narrative of what went on, that Bik done anything other than follow agreed protocol. Sure he may have been under pressure from the outside leadership but any suggestion that he willingly conspired in any nefarious plan to hijack the Hungerstrikes for political gain is unacceptable from my point of view and grounded in subjection not fact. Being honest I just don't think it's fair at all. It has to be remembered also that he was a soldier in an army following orders to a certain extent and given the way the British behaved in the first Hungerstrike it made the decision-making process much more difficult for those inside Long Kesh - it's little wonder there was a greater dependency on those outside the prison's strategic thinking. Fully expect to get the head ate of me for saying all this but I just feel we have to be careful not to twist some of this stuff to suit our own political agenda or to see it in a context far removed from that of the times that were in it, the truth's more important than that. At the very least we should stick to what the evidence tells us and that's that the republican leadership has serious, serious questions to answer. If we start to widen this out to make claims that some would rightly see as incredible then they won't be obliged to answer any of it and the narrative can be dismissed. If I'm wrong here about Bik then fair enough, some of you's know him - I've only met him the once and everything else I'm saying is just my opinion of him

Mickeybroy the whole point around your argument se...

2013-05-21T08:52:08.645+01:00

Mickeybroy the whole point around your argument seems to be around what time the management and the shop stupids were informed about the death of vol Joe Mc Donnell,and I thought the whole point of Carries post was that this mans death and the subsequent deaths were needless as is quite clear in both Richard and Carrie,s narrative, I have called for a republican inquiry under Green Book rules before ,do you think a cara that the bearded one your president for life ,Bangers ,Gorbels Gibney Tombstone Hartley et al would be willing to support that call I seriously doubt it,given the evidence piling up against them and the possible or definite consequences for their treacherous actions at that time .the whole point Mickeybroy was not the moment Joe died but rather what time was wasted in saving his and the others lives.

Boyne Rover: " If Donaldson and Scappatic...

2013-05-21T03:52:29.970+01:00
Boyne Rover:

" If Donaldson and Scappaticci were helping the British crush the Provo’s then its not any great stretch of the imagination to suggest that the same could apply to Adams and the Kitchen Cabinet in 81 ????"

On that one we are on the same wave length. I have ultimately come to the conclusion that the kitchen cabinet must have been working with the British , "FOR THE BRITISH". imo that is, unless someone finds a more logical explanation. as far as I'm concerned , they might as well sit in the British Parliament , or , who knows, they may even reach the "HOUSE OF LORDS"!

Tain Bo: "The Adams Group and the British...

2013-05-21T03:21:21.641+01:00
Tain Bo:

"The Adams Group and the British, unaware he had died, were in discussions until 5:30am"

I am going to have to go through everything again , have I missed read some of Carrie's time line, Adams wasn't there at 05:30 , although he should have been, and , in my opinion he must have had ulterior motives not to be there , I have no doubt whatsoever that Ricky O' Rawe is telling the truth , When Bik released those comms from Ricky , after all those years , they looked like they were so pristeen and transcribed the same day, and , bik states that Ricky worked in PSF press for one year, why didn't he mention any of this then , and why did he wait so long to bring it into the public domaim via a book , my question to PSF is , Why did Adams leave that very safe house to have a kip! , when the British rep was there and adams always stayed there with him. If it was for something for a female , then he didn't give to hoots about who was next to die , or , his plan was going well and he was well informed by the Brits of the situation , VIA ANOTHER SOURCE.

I firmly believe that Bik was in on all of this dirty work , and I'm speaking of as a person who knew him and his whole family, Holy than holier. Father Bik?.
I will go through Carrie's time line and , If I'm wrong , then I will rectify and apologize..

michaelhenry aka mcivor has been on every forum ca...

2013-05-20T23:32:41.493+01:00
michaelhenry aka mcivor has been on every forum carrying Carrie's piece throwing his 'startling' discovery about.

All the brains in the Adams' Kitchen Cabinet couldn't break Ricky's story yet our michael the humble councilor who spends his time online has gone and blown it apart.

Phone Gerry or Danny Michael with your exposé, surely now they'll feel save to face Ricky instead of hiding.

MLA Michael McIvor...It has a ring to it.

Mickey, I have no expectation of what people may ...

2013-05-20T23:01:30.491+01:00
Mickey,

I have no expectation of what people may believe I am merely stating my opinion on the prison struggle.
You are partially correct Mickey as Carrie does clearly state:

The Adams Group and the British, unaware he had died, were in discussions until 5:30am, and did not hear of his death immediately; it was a number of hours before they knew: "We first heard it on the 7:00am news," Duddy records.

Adams' autobiography confirms they did not know Joe had died while they were conducting the channel discussions: "Then, later, when we turned on the first news broadcast of the morning, we heard that Joe McDonnell was dead."

Adams seems to have less trouble acknowledging he was unaware are you calling your leader a liar?
Again you are trapped repeating several words from a sentence.
Mickey I am disappointed that I couldn’t find the golden spike and if I had or do I would happily post it here.

If I do follow your logic and agree with your weak point a greater issue arises.
After Joe died why did it take so long for negations’ to prevent further loss of life?
People will draw their own conclusions Mickey the loss of life does not speak well for the skill of the negotiators.

I can’t speak for Carrie but I would have been more than willing to put the timeline to sleep if I could find direct problems that would contradict it.
As for a republican inquiry the onus would be on others to disprove the narrative and I would again be happy if they did.
Until then a very dark cloud looms over a sad and tragic part of our history.

Michaelhenry, unfortunately for yourself, your pa...

2013-05-20T21:57:11.770+01:00
Michaelhenry,

unfortunately for yourself, your party leadership has lied to republicans, the families of hunger strikers and Joe's family for years. It is well and truly over and there is no longer a case that can be made against the O'Rawe narrative. As Tain Bo says it would be comforting to think that Carrie and Richard had somehow got it wrong. But the weight of evidence is too compelling.

But we had it before. Think of Ballyseedy.

Tain Bo- Carrie clearly states- " and the ...

2013-05-20T18:10:56.742+01:00
Tain Bo-

Carrie clearly states-

" and the British,unaware he had died,were in discussions untill 5:30am,and did not hear of his death immediately;it was a number of hours before they knew:"

And you expect people to believe this-its the number one lie that the british did not know that Volunteer Joe McDonnell was dead for a number of hours-is Carrie going to stand in front of a Republican inquiry and state this in front of the Hunger-Strike familys-in front of Joes family-they would run her out of the court-its over-but argue on-

Mickey, at first glance Mickey your comment sound...

2013-05-19T21:08:08.875+01:00
Mickey,

at first glance Mickey your comment sounds and reads well that is until one reads the line you minced to sound clever. You even go as far as to suggest your minced line puts an end to the entire hunger strike narrative.
I combed over all the information I could find again as the subject deserves critical scrutiny. Believe it or not Mickey I have been looking at it trying to find flaws in Richards’s narrative and have went over Carries translation looking for flaws in the timeline.

It was your comment that I thought might have something that I overlooked I went through it and didn’t find exactly what you stated.

This:

" The British,unaware he had died "

Unfortunately is not the same as what is stated below?

“The Adams Group and the British, unaware he had died, were in discussions until 5:30am, and did not hear of his death immediately; it was a number of hours before they knew: "We first heard it on the 7:00am news," Duddy records.”

There is a great deal of information Mickey in the 55 hours unlike you I can honestly say I have been trying to pick it apart.
The notion that republicans shouldn’t discuss a pivotal part of our history only undermines the version you readily believe and that is the version I would prefer to believe but in honesty Mickey as long as the narrative stands the only profit to be made is truth.

Suspicious that you would mangle a line to lie in order to make a point about what you and your camp view as yarns and lies.

Menace, the Brit attitude was determined by where...

2013-05-19T20:25:53.699+01:00
Menace,

the Brit attitude was determined by where they saw the real power lying. They believed with good reason that the outside leadership was running the show and that any approaches to the prisoners outside of leadership approval would amount to a failure. This is why the entire Brit emphasis was on getting a deal that the leadership would not block.

The whole negotiating process from our side had been set up in such a way as to prevent the prisoners taking any decision. And on the one occasion that the camp leadership did accept a deal (between themselves and not in the presence of the Brits) it was overruled by the leadership on the outside.

Had the Brits made the approach you suggest the hunger strikers were directed not to listen to them or speak to them without Bik being present. And there would have been allegations from us of a Brit attempt to split.

And the Brit view of Bik was that he was an extension of the outside leadership into the ranks of the prisoners rather than a representative of the prisoners. He certainly did not want anything done that would undermine the leadership or not gain its approval.