Comments on The Pensive Quill: Bleakness Descends

Bleakness Descends Electric Dayzee, Thanks for y...

2013-06-04T21:20:45.921+01:00

Bleakness Descends

Electric Dayzee,

Thanks for your comment. The war in drugs is as you say basically a justification for enhanced law enforcement power. It has failed big time.

It still cuts to one clear conclusion. It was di...

2013-05-06T15:13:03.341+01:00

It still cuts to one clear conclusion. It was dishonorable. The betrayal of friendship was, dishonourable. This is something the british did. IIt was called "Shoot To Kill". But the dymanics of Peter Butterlles Murder was worse. This involved personal betrayal. And that is worse than any act of Physical Violence. And it was the organisations mistake for not taking his children to consideration. To that I say, a big shame at them. Even Tom Barry, the Greatest Strategic Leader, and his brillance of Kilmichael. He left thevOrganisation, when the Organisation wanted to hit the Mainland. During his time in the Organisation, he made brutal decisions, yhat at the time were called for. But he also relied on wisdom of perspective. Our Honor is all we have. The one who pulled the trigger at Peter Butterly, may as well have been the same one who pulled the trigger at Alan Ryan. There is nothing to distinguish the action. Where as the Irish, does that leave us?

marty "tainted beyond use" is exa...

2013-04-06T20:17:25.372+01:00

marty "tainted beyond use" is exactly right. I would go so far as to say that all other things equal like the type and amount of drugs sold a Republican perpetrator is much worse than a regular criminal as the 'Republican' does more harm to the cause of Irish Unity. By aligning drugs crime with subversive activity he makes the charge of criminality and terrorism easier to be made and more justly at that. Perhaps the criminality branding will work retroactively also?

Simon it seems to me a bit like bolting the stable...

2013-04-06T18:26:58.022+01:00

Simon it seems to me a bit like bolting the stable door after the horse has long gone, the prm and their dalliance with farc has opened the floodgates of criticism which will be leveled at all the different groupings and which will be almost impossible to shrug of or deny,they certainly dont need to be adding fuel to the fire which this case seems to do,there is no such thing as a free lunch,which many may think the drugs trades is,any money earned in this dirty trade is tainted beyond use,and those who deal in this trade are neither socialist or republican but scum.

An update

Simon, reading the past from the present is a ser...

2013-04-05T19:31:59.519+01:00

Simon,

reading the past from the present is a serious problem for republican historiography. The image of drugs is starting to stick to some strains of republicanism like a limpet mine.

AM- There is another aspect about being linked to ...

2013-04-05T19:17:31.968+01:00

AM- There is another aspect about being linked to drugs, in whatever way, apart from the inherent immorality and poor ethics considering the harm that the sale, use and accompanying criminality and feuds cause the Irish people.

An inherent criminal activity such as this will publicly underscore the point that criminal activity and subversive political activity are one and the same thing.

This is what annoys me as although we may find out a reasonable explanation and although I don't support violence it sullies the tradition of Republicanism. So although I would prefer peaceful political activity what the armed groups do shouldn't annoy me but if it's allowed this will, through association destroy any respectability of past campaigns and the people involved.

Simon, I read this report this morning. I wonder ...

2013-04-05T16:01:56.570+01:00

Simon,

I read this report this morning. I wonder what the explanation will be.

Is there a drug dealer on the IRA wing?

Sean - again I agree with you - It is up to the yo...

2013-03-14T14:42:21.961Z

Sean - again I agree with you - It is up to the younger generations to act and they can only do so with good role models which I fear we don't have enough of ...... the narrative is being taken away the lessons are being warped but I think it is the responsibility of those of us who wish to see republicanism survive beyond Marty and Gerry's reign to educate and take back that narrative. Lets hope it happens.

Politicians by their very nature are usually a dev...

2013-03-14T14:21:26.530Z

Politicians by their very nature are usually a devious breed, but the two egotists who front the circus that is Stormont are way beyond devious,their history in our recent past has not been unearthed and probably never will,yes we have our snippets,and insinuation,but their cv,s like so many others in that subsidised goodfellas gathering remains with large blank pages,how can we ever be or even attempt to call ourselves a part of any democracy when those in the highest office have and retain a history that is not open to any form of scrutiny,so in effect how are they in any position to lecture anyone from republican to "fleg"protester,the biggest problem that I can see with any of the grouping or the majority of the politicians here is the lack of honesty and respect for the people,and without both our society is going to be caught in this whirlpool of corruption and the dirty deeds that go along with it for a long time to come,

Boyne Rover Do you have any proof that a current...

2013-03-14T14:21:00.148Z

Boyne Rover

Do you have any proof that a current leader was never the head of the UDA
or two previous leaders"?. One of whom was photographed in Israeli Brandishing a rifle.

Its the same on both sides of the divide, People pertaining to be in a faction and using it to run a drugs empire as cover.

Robert..well put. The parody that is not only the...

2013-03-14T08:11:45.174Z

Robert..well put. The parody that is not only the first and deputy first ministers--how galling that title bestowed upon Robinson mist sound to republicans--but the whole sham that masquerades as the peace process is something that could only have been dreamed up by the Give My Head Peace Team. A total lampoon and altyough it permits a few sniggers, in reality far from funny.

Aine I feel it will be up to the generation coming...

2013-03-13T23:11:15.411Z

Aine I feel it will be up to the generation coming through to bring about the type of unity you refer to, those perhaps of your own age and my son's and daughters'. That's the key now for me going forward - not to manipulate the next generation but to provide it with the guidance and more importantly the space to reestablish Irish republicanism as a viable and relevant political ideology capable of addressing the needs of our people.

As things stand I think we need to step back and take account of where we are, it's time for a serious examination of political reality. Only after recognising and admitting to our current situation can we rebuild and reorganise. This is the challenge we need to be meeting and not trying to flog a dead horse with attempts to reconfigure and resurrect the armed struggle. As I said earlier as far as I'm concerned it's already exhausted its strategic potential and it's time now to move forward in a new direction with a fresh approach. Education and debate are critical in all this and as always we have the Proclamation to guide us, everything we need is contained within its historic wording. It's important then that we encourage the young people in our society to recognise its value and the value of a republicanism in tune with the needs of our people here and now in the times that are in it. Needless to say we must also give them a good example.

Things have moved on, it's no longer 1969 - Thank God! And for that we have the efforts of the republican movement to thank. I think now it's time we paid those hardy souls back, those who fought, who died, who went to jail and otherwise suffered for the likes of me and you. The very least we owe them is to find that alternative way forward you mentioned in your comments so their sacrifice was not in vain and that another generation isn't left to the same date. It's there for us if we want it. Republicanism is still there for us if we want it

Stephen, 'which enables them to cosy up and d...

2013-03-13T20:56:46.943Z

Stephen,

'which enables them to cosy up and divvy up with their former "enemies".'

Who could have envisaged Van Helsing (Robinson) and Nosferatu (McGuinness), together, as they are presently on the Copacabana? Who are we to blame for creating this parody of Bram Stokers gothic horror? The imagery of the 'frienemies' could'nt appear anymore manufactured even were it to be broadcast to the accompaniment of the Barry Manilow classic 'Copacabana'.

Sean Bres - I agree with almost everything you'...

2013-03-13T19:48:31.886Z

Sean Bres - I agree with almost everything you've stated in your last comment except that when we start talking abut specific actions like the "suspected mortar attack" we are always forgetting that the state so many times over and over entrapped young men and women and will continue to do so - taking years and years in some cases to groom and entrap ...... history can not and should not be permitted to repeat itself - it is my opinion that the time for force is not now ...i am not a pacifist and do believe firmly that armed resistance is necessary - but not now

- I would really love to see a substantial effort by all republicans to come together and establish that republican alternative ...... but i fear that the "lads" have spent way too much time fighting each other in the last decade or two for it to ever be possible.......

I'd go along with Anthony's basic premise ...

2013-03-13T18:35:38.447Z

I'd go along with Anthony's basic premise that some of what goes on today is damaging for the image of republicanism and were it to retrospectively impact on the historical narrative of our movement then that would be unacceptable. But I also think there's an over-reaction among the comments. Suggestions that the republican struggle has been reduced to a Dublin turf war with organised crime in the city ignores the wider picture of what goes on North of the border where the vast majority of operations and attempted operations are carried out. While we may argue the strategic merits of such actions there's no doubt they are not criminal. The two lads caught with the mortar-launcher in Derry a short while back are republicans just like those that went before them and let us never say otherwise.

I don't know the ins-and-outs of it but it seems as though the assassination of Alan Ryan has opened a can of worms and the lid still hasn't been put back on yet. Elements in the media are using the resulting uncertainty to their advantage to portray republicans in a poor light. A campaign of retribution could indeed prove very costly for republicanism if it continues to descend into more murders on the streets because like Anthony says it can easily become guilt by association. The problem I think is now that it's started where the hell and how the hell does it end...

As Anthony intimates this has the potential to undermine everything we've fought for and gained and this has to be seriously considered by those who still wish to prosecute an armed struggle. I'm with Marty, that day has past. We need to rebuild our movement on solid foundations and use the political strength of the republican argument to progress our struggle. Physical force has served it's purpose. It's brought us a long way from the sectarian Orange state where Catholics were akin to the blacks of the U.S. Deep South and we salute all those who defended our people in that turbulent period we've just emerged from. But to go back would be a mistake and not in the republican interest. In fact I'd go further, that's just were the Brits want us.

They'd rather a low-level, poorly-funded, strategically moribund armed campaign than a powerful political movement with the people onside and the strength and legitimacy of the republican argument bearing down on them. This is what we must work to build for all our sakes. Ireland has seen enough bloodshed

I believe most of the people commenting here have ...

2013-03-13T18:00:47.387Z

I believe most of the people commenting here have said it all. If Republicans, of any strand, believe that “taxing” or actively participating in criminal activities, in particular the drugs trade, will further the cause of Irish reunification then they are completely delusional. Or more accurately using the “Republican brand” as a flag of convenience to pursue other a-political ends.

In the minds of the Irish general public the belief in a growing nexus of narco-terrorism involving organised crime gangs and Republican groupings is now firmly embedded. Even if one allows for the anti-Republican PR spin of the pro-British media establishment in Ireland there is no doubt that there is more than a grain of truth in this. Whether it is genuine Republicans or the criminal fringe Irish Republicanism as an ideology is being dragged through the mud in such a way that one may well wonder if it can ever recover. And Republicans of the “Dissident” strand have no one to blame but themselves.

The words of the Proclamation of the Irish Republic issued in 1916: “...we pray that no one who serves that cause will dishonour it by cowardice, inhumanity, or rapine.”

Could that guiding principle be applied to the activities of the Real IRA, Continuity IRA or now New IRA?

James--very succint and very little I could offer ...

2013-03-13T15:58:34.421Z

James--very succint and very little I could offer an argument against. There is definitely a new breed of politician here noth unionist and nationalist. They have been astute enough to see that there is a base that can keep them in power for the forseeable future and there are many sectarian issues that can be used to further their aims. They both treat their electorate with contempt and that same electorate are blinded by misguided loyalty to know the difference. In many ways the electorate who continue to vote for these weasels deserve no better.

Stephen, The DUP politics are in power with the re...

2013-03-13T14:53:28.700Z

Stephen,
The DUP politics are in power with the republican right in the USA. When you bring it down to its simplicity. Like the USA republicans, they have a mixture of right wing Christian religious and political thinking combined in old wine rhetoric. The DUP only see the loyalist working class as a vehicle to keep them in power and privilege. They care very little about the loyalist on the street. The Ulster Unionists are going this way, as Nesbitt has not a clue about politics. He views life as opportunities, his line will start to harden into more sectarian overtones, if it gets him where he needs to go. Loyalists will continue to be left behind by their political representatives because the masters thinking is simple, the 12th, flags, emblems and national british identity will re shame the loyalist working class dissidents back in to the fold. Sure SF and the stormount council is basically doing the same to their electorate. If the PUP could sort out its sectarian base, maybe there is somewhere to go, but they are snookered on tribal issues.

The thread of conversation here seems to have slip...

2013-03-13T09:04:43.396Z

The thread of conversation here seems to have slipped away from the ethics of republicans--or as I stated earlier--loyalists..to a debate on drugs. Drugs, and the profits made from them are of course one reason why ideolgical thoughts can be quickly forgotten but by no means the only one. I wouldnt suggest that the higher echelons of SF are drug dealers but the common perception is that they have foregone their republican ideals. Likewise many loyalists would contend that a party like the DUP can no longer claim to represent loyalism after their sell out which enables them to cosy up and divvy up with their former "enemies".

Fionnchú " but one wonders if they origi...

2013-03-13T01:06:20.487Z
Fionnchú

" but one wonders if they originated with, or very soon after, the formation of the groups who broke with PSF near or immediately after the GFA."

I would say after the GFA, but, there is a group who keeps itself from British eyes, who abhor those who are dealing in drugs and proclaiming themselves to be Republicans for there own selfish means, believe me, time will only tell, and it wont be in the distant future either, these people will desist. Its not just the gardia and psni/ruc and SB/MI5 who are watching them! No more shall people be executed on the say of a tout. It will be with a warning, then if they persist, evidence will be shown and the ultimate will happen.

When i heard of the shooting of Peter Butterly, I ...

2013-03-13T00:43:35.039Z
When i heard of the shooting of Peter Butterly, I also questioned as AM outlined above what purpose did this serve and concerns around the gardai operation also.
As many above have mentioned 'drugs' prescription or defined 'illegal' I'm in favour of harm minimization. The 'war on drugs' looks to have failed in reality it serves the state well, take an analogy of the following link applied to Ireland (not on the scale of the US) but extra police resources,surveillance,tarnish those opposed to the state etc http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/03/12/15-benefits-of-the-war-on-drugs/
Peter Butterly was to appear in court this week charged with membership of an "illegal organisation styling itself on ONH/IRA" If those that killed him wanted him out the way, he would likely have been jailed this week, out of the way other than any threat which does occur in jail, and risk he has 'talked or would' however
One man is dead and young men facing lengthy sentences for his killing - what were those that ordered the killing thinking? Or not thinking!
If they are linked to any form of PFR there is no strategy at all, for once I dislike to admit the media and journalists portrayal of this as criminality is much closer to the truth.
Quisling PSF have abandoned any form of republican values by the ballot box or the armalite, its an opportunity for republicans to articulate core values, it doesn't need to leave the past behind, there was a void created by the GFA - its easy to point the finger at 15yrs of GFA Failures and sell out, but its time for serious debate about where republicanism is heading definitively not in the way it was supposed to be expressed in the killing of peter butterly.

Simon /Frankie. Drug dealer ordered to repay almost £200,000 in Bolton

to me that's how it should be, he has lost everything and so he should.

This killing is unacceptable and those who have ca...

2013-03-12T23:50:56.687Z
This killing is unacceptable and those who have carried it out need to explain their actions. Are we in Ireland not entitled to basic justice and humanity that we demand of others? God save Ireland from such unjust actions.

May Peter Butterly rest in peace. All our heartfelt condolences to Eithne and children in this sad time.