Comments on The Pensive Quill: Political Struggle Past And Present

Nuala, Donaldson had a brass neck. He used to tel...

2011-08-11T09:08:49.078+01:00

Nuala,

Donaldson had a brass neck. He used to tell journalists that myself and Tommy Gorman were doing the work of the Brits. So I am not surprised that his response to Choc should be as it was. It was all a con from the outset of the peace moves. All the things it was supposed to put an end to – political policing, unionist veto, partition, political prisoners – never came about.

Marty,

I always sensed that Micky Ferguson knew it was bollix but by that point was really of the mind of a community worker willing to work within the existing political framework and fight for more community resources. I noticed a serious shift from ideological positions on his part but not so much in the careerist sense of so many others. It was clear to me too at the time of those meetings another Sunningdale was all that was on the cards. Gibney and Hartley would respond that I had no real understanding of politics. They could not come to terms with their own lack of vision.

Marty, ‘one wonders can we expect a kristallnacht...

2011-08-11T04:13:16.344+01:00

Marty,

‘one wonders can we expect a kristallnacht sometime soon from psf,’

It can never be ruled out. I doubt if it could be to that extent. Would do harm to their electoral ambitions down here. Something more limited and deniable is more in their style. That is why it has always been important to make their denials seem ridiculous. It limits their room to harm republicans.

I would not be surprised at big Gerry erasing republican support messages. He is just a New Lodge catholic and republican things would be of a distant concern. Always a decent guy in jail. Cruncher, however, came from a very radical background. I think his father was fairly left wing. I had always great time for him. He was one funny man and could think. I knew he was embracing this type of outcome as far back as 95. I had made a highly critical contribution to a debate in the RDS predicting where it was all going. Most people denied it could ever go there. I had a conversation shortly after it with him and he was critical of the speech, not because it was wrong in its predictions but because it was critical of where we would end up. That’s my recollection of it anyway. He seemed to have worked it out.

Nuala we never went to any of those meeting, just ...

2011-08-10T20:55:08.650+01:00

Nuala we never went to any of those meeting, just before the surrender announcement we got a visit from Micky Ferguson who gave us a speil about volunteers being burnt out,that the war was going no where ,blah blah blah. we said to him we thought that what the movement was settling for was less than was on the table in the Sunnindale agreement and that Mallon had got it right when he described it as Sunnindale for slow learners, Ferguson turned on his heels and walked out the door never to return,

Alec, one of my earlier points about British stat...

2011-08-10T18:42:46.198+01:00

Alec,

one of my earlier points about British state strategy, made back at the end of the 90s, was that it never lost sight of its objective of defeating republicanism. It long sought to do this by excluding both republicans and republicanism. Then it hit on the idea of securing that defeat by including republicans and excluding republicanism. Once stripped of republicanism they were no longer republicans. Brit success all round guaranteed.

With every minute it spends in Stormont admisister...

2011-08-10T18:06:34.607+01:00

With every minute it spends in Stormont admisistering British rule, Sinn Feinn becomes less republican and more collaborationist. The Stoop Down Low Party never pretended to be one thing only to become something else. Sinn Fein has morphed into a party which is no longer recognisable as being Republican.

Mackers,

I have still to come across anyone who put it as succinctly and accurately as yourself: what we see in Stormont are republicans without Republicanism.

Mackers, Yes I do remember Joe making that claim, ...

2011-08-10T15:55:37.066+01:00

Mackers,
Yes I do remember Joe making that claim, it was around the time of the victory parades and victory speeches.
I remember around that time attending a community based republican meeting chaired by Fra Mc Cann and Dennis Donaldson.
The meeting had been designed to give ordinary republicans a chance to air their opinions and concerns.
Choc Carmichael, one of the first so called dissenters got to his feet and asked the people chairing the meeting, 'who actually won the war as there were victory parades on the Falls, Shankill and Whitehall, so who actually got the victory?'
The response which greeted his question was a tirade of abuse from Donaldson, who accused him of trying to sabotage the meeting and cause upset. Donaldson, then suggested, Choc should go to the Felons Club and pose the question to Adams who had apparently just returned from America.
After that, the meeting continued in an uneasy vein with people only too aware their comments were being noted by the movement's heavies.
I think like Choc we all knew we were being conned that evening but unlike him, none of us had the courage to say it.

Larry, I did not think you were being rude, if any...

2011-08-10T15:02:48.075+01:00

Larry,
I did not think you were being rude, if anything I felt bad as I had absolutely no idea it was a private venture only.

Fionnuala was not being rude, was just trying to f...

2011-08-10T13:19:02.056+01:00

Fionnuala
was not being rude, was just trying to figure out where the 'museum' was and pondering who may be behind it.

Orwell got it so right Anthony its f##kin scary.it...

2011-08-09T20:12:09.812+01:00

Orwell got it so right Anthony its f##kin scary.its amazing what a job and a few bob can do to change some ex revolutionaries memories,I would love these people to read that letter from Tom Williams to Nualas father and then tell me they still think they have the right to call themselves republican.

Marty, ‘within 24 hours of removing Free Marian s...

2011-08-09T17:08:07.144+01:00

Marty,

‘within 24 hours of removing Free Marian slogans, the slogan has popped up all over the place along the full length of the Falls.’

And to think that these guys were in jail at one time having their names written on walls as a gesture of solidarity from working class people. The power of Orwellian insight always jumps to mind.

I have no doubt that the letter with Nuala is deeply moving. A tremendous amount of history there.

Anthony ,one wonders can we expect a kristallnacht...

2011-08-09T16:27:44.958+01:00

Anthony ,one wonders can we expect a kristallnacht sometime soon from psf,you yourself and Tommy Gorman have experienced the leading edge of such behaviour,from people who should know better .

Alec, ‘Mainstream republicans’ seems such a stran...

2011-08-09T16:10:41.108+01:00

Alec,

‘Mainstream republicans’ seems such a strange term. People like me tend to regard you and others of like mind as mainstream republicans and the other crowd as akin to the Sticks. I don’t get hooked on terminology but as I said to Nuala earlier, republican seems such an ill fitting term to apply to them. It fits like the term cat does to an Alsatian. I am sure somebody erudite will go back to Darwin and the Origins of Species to claim common descent but even at that the Shinners and republicans are now separate species.

‘Whatever one's views about the unsightly nature of some slogans it ill behoves mainstream republicans to be removing such public manifestations of support for the prisoners.’

True. Have they erased any more artistic works?

Nuala, ‘how could Joe have made such a ridiculous...

2011-08-09T14:17:29.092+01:00

Nuala,

‘how could Joe have made such a ridiculous claim?’

I think because he ended up embracing a ridiculous position himself. Do you not recall him claiming that the war was won?

As for your da, he would be spot on in not identifying SF as remotely republican. To say SF is not republican is not a put down but merely an observation although it can be used as a put down. SF in order to be where they are had to abandon republicanism and embrace something that was long opposed to republicanism. We can debate the merits or demerits of their position but to call it republican seems as strange as calling Paisley a Catholic.

marty, many paint brushes make light work.

2011-08-09T00:11:28.290+01:00

marty,

many paint brushes make light work.

Alec if it gives you a smile you will be pleased t...

2011-08-08T22:18:38.792+01:00

Alec if it gives you a smile you will be pleased to hear that within 24 hours of removing Free Marian slogans, the slogan has poped up all over the place along the full length of the Falls.I think the boyos will have trouble keeping the lid on this one,,Anthony Marie and I were down with Nuala this evening and she showed us the Tom Williams letter to her dad,I can honestly say I truely moved reading it.

Painting out prisoner slogans by mainstream republ...

2011-08-08T21:19:11.904+01:00

Painting out prisoner slogans by mainstream republicans is becoming a habit. A similar incident happened recently to a 'Free Colin Duffy' slogan in Derry. The Families and Friends have had many of their posters defaced and removed during the past two years and I doubt it was the work of anti-social elements. Another problem we have encountered is the removal of posters by council workers with twenty-four hours of them appearing; local information seems to spread very quickly indeed.

Whatever one's views about the unsightly nature of some slogans it ill behoves mainstream republicans to be removing such public manifestations of support for the prisoners. In the H-Block days pro prisoner slogans were to be seen up and down the country.

VICTORY TO THE REPUBLICAN PRISONERS IN MAGHABERRY!!!END STRIP SEARCHES NOW!!!IMPLEMENT THE JIAL AGREEMENT!!!

Nuala, Newlodge Kate asks will you give her a call...

2011-08-08T18:40:52.442+01:00

Nuala, Newlodge Kate asks will you give her a call asap.

Marty, the O Neill I heard was not Gerard, it was...

2011-08-08T17:38:53.037+01:00

Marty,
the O Neill I heard was not Gerard, it was Paul.
Gerard O Neill is not a member of Tar Isteach and I don't think Walsh is the head honcho unless I am mistaken it is Culbert.

Sorry Nuala it is Gerard Riley (policing board me...

2011-08-08T17:15:07.006+01:00

Sorry Nuala it is Gerard Riley (policing board member) and Paul O Neill

Nuala Sid Walsh aka P .O.Neill was not involved in...

2011-08-08T16:45:05.812+01:00

Nuala Sid Walsh aka P .O.Neill was not involved in the painting over of the free Marian slogan but I believe either or both of the ex -prisioners involved are employed by either Coiste or Tar Isteach and as the bold Sid is a head honcho in Tar Isteach then Marie wanted to make him aware of what exactly his employees are up to and also voice her disgust as an ex-prisioner and a friend of Marian,s the O,Neill you heard was Gerard (policing board member ) O Neill,

Nuala, they can put the details of their events u...

2011-08-08T16:21:04.507+01:00

Nuala,

they can put the details of their events up whenever they please.

Nuala, sorry about that. I knew exactly what you ...

2011-08-08T16:19:04.612+01:00

Nuala,

sorry about that. I knew exactly what you meant but was hurrying from one thing to another and rushed my response

Mackers, I did not phrase the question properly. C...

2011-08-08T16:13:22.494+01:00

Mackers,
I did not phrase the question properly. Could Alec or Sean let people know via TPQ if there are any pickets or demonstrations.
I know you have always highlighted this case, I justed did not write the post properly.

Nuala, of course they can post

2011-08-08T15:59:17.373+01:00

Nuala,

of course they can post

Larry, I think that was a bit unfair it is a priva...

2011-08-08T15:19:41.950+01:00

Larry,
I think that was a bit unfair it is a private collection and is in no way connected to Sinn Fein.

Marty,
yes, I heard the story of some of the people from ex-prisoner group painting over a 'Free Marian Price' declaration.
However, I did not hear Sydney Walsh mentioned, heard another O Neill though!