Comments on The Pensive Quill: A Decadent Police

What’s in a name? We would be foolish to believe t...

2009-08-18T11:43:21.210+01:00

What’s in a name? We would be foolish to believe the RUC mentality is not ripe within the PSNI.
In a strange irony their former nemeses the Provos are now holding their hands and bolstering their bigotry and confidence in that old cliché “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”
It works out as a good deal for both Sinn Fein and the PSNI considering they both wish to crush anyone who does not follow the new rules and rulers.
Changing the name was a polite gesture though if reform was serious a changing of the entire force would have been implemented.
The fact remains the same they are in place to uphold British law so its meet the new cops same as the old cops.

Urban Underclass, I doubt if you are being unpatri...

2009-08-16T20:36:59.631+01:00

Urban Underclass, I doubt if you are being unpatriotic in the slightest. I proudly refuse to give them even the outermost preference should it be on the 99th count. They, Fine Gael and Libertas get nothing from me.

I think the situation on the ground in Armagh's Drumarg area states the case against SF in bald terms. The party is now part of the British administration and want their former comrades jailed because they won't cross over to the British administrative camp.

I spoke to a resident from Drumarg and the people there feel abandoned and are frustrated that their experience is not being highlighted. 40 years ago this month there was a wall of silence. Same again it seems.

AM, At risk of seeming unpatriotic, but I don'...

2009-08-16T20:03:02.236+01:00

AM,
At risk of seeming unpatriotic, but I don't vote Sinn Fein down here and I wouldn't vote for them up there either.
Since the peace process began, they have bacome a party of political opportunists, north and south.

Urban Underclass, The RUC were frequently met wi...

2009-08-16T19:49:35.317+01:00

Urban Underclass,

The RUC were frequently met with a public outcry. I think the lack of same in relation to the PSNI is because the party that would have been behind generating any public outcry has bought into the system and stays mute. The PSNI can be held to account to a much greater degree than they currently are but accountability comes with exposure and there is not enough of that.

AM, Referring back to the leval of control exerci...

2009-08-16T14:48:53.212+01:00

AM,

Referring back to the leval of control exercised over the PSNI vs. The Gardai.
While there might be more legislation in place to control the PSNI, the Gardai don't get away with much before there is a public outcry.
Take for example the already mentioned McBrierty case in Donegal, which lead to a government tribunal of inquiry.

Having lived in the North until recent years and n...

2009-08-16T12:45:01.964+01:00

Having lived in the North until recent years and never having had the oportunity to have any interaction with an RUC man/woman other than when they were on duty it's refreshing to be in a community where young garda walk the streets and cycle around town doing their 'beat.' It's also a reasuring feeling [ hopefully not misplaced] to feel there is a community police service.
It's not fair to expect someone in the RUC to be responsible for the state of the force they are in. It's socialisation and a result of the toxic communities we lived in. For example, teaching in Thailand I met a fellow teacher for the first time from the North. As soon as he said he was from Lurgan I knew he was a protestant because we had never met in our 40 odd years of life.
That's the nature of society there. My point is WHAT have the politicians and the RUC/PSNI done to remedy this in it's ranks? From almost 15yrs of a peace process it appears very little. That's why I maintain it remains a sectarian force.
By the way I have met some extremely personable and wonderful COI people here in the South who are very genuine indeed. Possibly the PSNI could consider a recruitment drive from the COI in the South as a stepping stone to community/unbiased policing if having a Northern taig in the house is too much to bear for the rank and file PSNI just now?
By the way I'm glad you caught my mildly ceptic humour about the personable biggots. lol

Urban Underclass, True that they terrorise natio...

2009-08-16T01:06:45.189+01:00

Urban Underclass,

True that they terrorise nationalist communities but I doubt that the Garda are more accountable

Larry, 'very personable decent sectarian big...

2009-08-16T01:05:15.153+01:00

Larry,

'very personable decent sectarian bigots.'

a funny way to put it now!

Anthony, of course it's a sectarian arg...

2009-08-16T00:15:34.715+01:00

Anthony,
of course it's a sectarian argument, it's a sectarian police force and a sectarian topic. Policing in most countries is in the interests of the rich and propertied classes. That's why white collar criminals recieve such lenient sentencing worldwide. So the Garda are little different on that score. In N. Ireland and in the specific case of this article you posted we are talking about a sectarian force. I don't think there's any other way to describe it . Until they actually implement tangible changes it's sectarian-period. Just like the police in S. Africa were racist the RUC/PSNI is sectarian. I'm sure you are correct and no doubt some of the individuals in the PSNI are very personable decent sectarian biggots.
I just wonder how many of them consider themselves Irish when they enter catholic/Nationalist areas?

AM, When I wrote "they are human after all&qu...

2009-08-15T18:33:37.957+01:00

AM,
When I wrote "they are human after all" I did not mean to imply that the PSNI are not.
I was thinking more in terms of my own troubled relationship with the Gardai, and how I struggle to see past the uniform to the human being underneath.

AM, Yes I would vouch for the fact that the Gardai...

2009-08-15T18:13:34.219+01:00

AM,
Yes I would vouch for the fact that the Gardai show a fair deal of contempt for the working class, but I do think they are more answerable.
We don't see them terrorizing communities as you have described the PSNI doing in this post.
They are our police, we need some kind of police force to maintain order.
Personally I think the typical type who wants to join the police in any country is inherently right-wing and probably a bit of a bully to boot.
It is up to governments to keep them on a tight leash.

Urban Underclass, 'they are human afterall....

2009-08-15T18:03:47.691+01:00

Urban Underclass, 'they are human afterall.' I am sure you don't mean it as such but does that make the PSNI less than human? There are as many decent PSNI types as there are Garda I imagine. Can't see why there wouldn't be. I have spoken on friendly terms with members of both forces. That does not prohibit me holding a political opposition to them

Larry Hughes, 'Yes the Garda have scary new l...

2009-08-15T17:58:46.533+01:00

Larry Hughes,

'Yes the Garda have scary new laws to deal with criminal gangs in the south. The difference is it will be applied by Irish people on Irish people. Not abused by 'British' police on Irish fenian scum.'

Larry, same as. The difference is unpersuasive. The Garda contempt for working class people is probably the same as the PSNI for nationalists. I tend to find these arguments a touch sectarian. 'Our cops are better cops because they are nationalists or Catholics.'

Urban Underclass 'The difference is, the Guar...

2009-08-15T17:54:48.450+01:00

Urban Underclass

'The difference is, the Guards are answerable to us. (And they are Nationalists).'

Somehow, I don't think that would enamour me to them in the slightest. Getting kicked about by a nationalist is just as painful I imagine s being kicked about by a unionist.

As for being answerable 'to us' I think the PSNI is probably more accountable.

It’s very sad to read this post but unfortunately ...

2009-08-15T16:49:02.209+01:00

It’s very sad to read this post but unfortunately this is a way of life in the North for a lot of Catholics, especially in the Lurgan Portadown areas. These people have always been harassed by either RUC B-Specials or UDR all of which would be predominately protestant forces. This situation will pertain for years to come because the majority of people in the North would agree that this is the way that Catholics should be curtailed and unfortunately there is now the silence from Sinn Fein which I find very disturbing because if we cast our minds back 40years this is exactly the same type of treatment the police force dished out and which progressed to the troubles of which Sinn Fein rose from.

Larry wrote, The difference is it will be appli...

2009-08-15T15:22:05.924+01:00
Larry wrote,
The difference is it will be applied by Irish people on Irish people. Not abused by 'British' police on Irish fenian scum.

This is true, while I have had a fair few scrapes with the law, there are a some Gardai who I get on well with, they are human after all.
There's one lad in particular who I have right chats with about music and dogs, two obsessions of mine.

Yeah, they have alot of power, I think the worst i...

2009-08-15T11:43:57.985+01:00
Yeah, they have alot of power, I think the worst is random searches of individuals on the street or cars.
I got searched for no reason while waiting for a bus recently, nothing on me but it was in a busy shopping district in the middle of the day and it was a bit embarrassing.
Also the public order offenses can be very loosely interpreted.
They are not above wading into fairly peaceful demonstrations with their ID numbers off and their batons swinging either.

Think it's the inherent sectarianism at work. ...

2009-08-15T10:09:39.762+01:00
Think it's the inherent sectarianism at work. Nomatter how many new laws are put in place in the North it's still going to be protestant police "invading" nationalist/catholic working class areas. Unfortunately SF are loath to "get down and dirty" where these incidents occur. They're more up-market these days. Major problems in policing,90% of catholic recruits to the PSNI seemingly left after less than a year because of workplace hostility.
Yes the Garda have scary new laws to deal with criminal gangs in the south. The difference is it will be applied by Irish people on Irish people. Not abused by 'British' police on Irish fenian scum. However it will be interesting to see the first application of the new Garda measures, there could be controversy ahead as the Garda are
distrusted in certain areas such as Donegal after a few disgraceful cases where people were framed.

Am, The difference is, the Guards are answerable t...

2009-08-14T21:38:27.723+01:00
Am,
The difference is, the Guards are answerable to us. (And they are Nationalists).
Rory

I can't see it changing any time soon. At the ...

2009-08-14T21:34:59.083+01:00
I can't see it changing any time soon. At the same time the Gardai will have powers that the PSNI don't yet have

Hardly community policing is it? Around my town th...

2009-08-14T21:13:54.965+01:00
Hardly community policing is it?
Around my town the Gardai walk or ride bicycles.

White ones, yes

2009-08-14T21:05:12.742+01:00
White ones, yes

Do the PSNI still go around in those horrible armo...

2009-08-14T11:08:07.649+01:00
Do the PSNI still go around in those horrible armored Land Rovers?
I saw them when I visited Belfast in 2002 and found them very intimidating